Bridges In A Fragmented World

A veteran’s cadence meets a TEDx stage, and the message lands with force. We sit down with Sgt. Roy to unpack a provocative thesis: our culture is being coached into division, confusion, and emotionalism, while the antidote is older and tougher, consisting of truth, discipline, and connection. From the barracks at Fort Jackson to the bright lights of a university TEDx, Roy shares how a clear message, relentless practice, and visible proof of work can open doors without compromising your values.

We trade war stories with purpose. Roy talks about honoring sacrifice when headlines soften it, the pride of service that builds identity through effort, and why “soldier first” still matters from medical units to logistics. Then we get specific about the skills that bridge gaps: asking for evidence, listening without surrendering conviction, and widening your circle beyond people who look and think like you. He names the trap of “toxic empathy,” in which care erodes accountability, and argues for teaching people to fish so dignity and confidence can grow.

The conversation turns to race, wealth, and agency. We wrestle with Tulsa, generational loss, and the case for buying Black, while Roy pushes toward scale, productivity, and role models beyond entertainment, such as coders, surgeons, founders, and educators who rarely get the mic. He shares moments of being ostracized for success, the resolve that comes from faith and calling, and the quiet joy of mentoring youth and serving in men’s ministry. If you’re tired of hot takes and ready for habits that heal, this is your map: craft the message, do the work, expand your circles, lead with evidence, and refuse to be programmed for division.

If this conversation moved you, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review with the one insight you’ll act on this week. Your voice helps others find the path from noise to connection.

Transcript

Welcome Back, Sgt. Roy

SPEAKER_01 0:07

All right, so we're here with Sergeant Roy, who has come back to speak with us again. Sergeant Roy, are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 0:15

I am ready.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

All right, awesome. So let's just jump right in.

Mission Of Urban Christian Veterans

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Urban Christian Veterans provides a safe place for Christian veterans of color to discuss the challenges you face in your daily lives. Being a person of color has its challenges. Being a Christian has its challenges. Being a veteran has its challenges. All of those factors being combined makes for a unique and sometimes difficult life experience that is seldom talked about in public forums. Thank you for tuning in to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast. Here's your host, D. Allen Rose.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Thank you, Andrew, for that wonderful introduction. This is the Allen Rose, and you are listening to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast. So, what's been going on with you since we last spoke?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Well, a lot's been going

TEDx Behind The Scenes

SPEAKER_02 1:12

on. I I was able to do my very first TED talk, and that was a lot of fun. It was strange though. I I speak all the time, but I was invited to the University of Central Oklahoma, and they did a uh it was a conference on the theme was Worlds Connected. And um they had 10 speakers, and it was kind of interesting though, because uh I I normally like to go first or in the middle or whatever, but they they put me last. So you had to close the show. You had to bring it up and close it out. I took it that way because I got, you know, I'm just like, uh oh, you know, I'd rather be in the middle somewhere. But that was fun working with those young people that they're really on point, uh, you know, especially what's going on today. Young people are really coming alive, stepping up and trying to get some answers and stuff like that. And I've done uh a couple of other, you know, speaking engagements and stuff like that around uh getting invited to conferences and some schools and stuff like that. But that's my thing now. Now that I'm retired, uh I'm in retirement mode. Um I said that the only thing is that I don't want to get super busy because I I don't have the time to go on the road.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

You know, when I first started, I was like going by car and I did uh Tuskegee University and I was I went by car and I was like, ooh, man, these these people that do this for a living, you know, like comedians and people that travel by car. I said, man, this is this is kind of rough, but but it's rewarding nonetheless. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

So what was that process

Breaking Into Speaking Circuits

SPEAKER_01 2:38

like? Because um, I know that uh, well, the one that I looked into or am looking into, they were like, you gotta do a video, you gotta like send it in with an application. So you had to go through that whole whole process there.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Well, I I took um I paid for this one course and I I won't mention their name, but it was it was good. They gave me some ideas and stuff like that on how to put you, you put a uh, like you inquire with your letter to all the event planners and stuff like that, and you put this, you know, template letter together and say that you're a speaker and you speak on this topic, and are they looking because a lot of times you want to reach out to people six months to 12 months out. You know, because they're right now, even as we speak right now, event planners are planning for the end of the year or planning for next year, and they're looking for people, and you you just kind of that part you just have to kind of be consistent with it. Uh I may have sent out maybe 50 emails or letters, and I'll get like, you know, a handful that we're in will ask and what's going on. And then you want to do your your uh your your video. You want to take a video, and it's relatively easy because nowadays with technology you can use your cell phone and uh like the video you saw me doing uh with the Toastmaster Media, that was shot on my phone and and um and you just do stuff like that, and then you also I think the thing is your

Nailing The Message And Reps

SPEAKER_02 4:03

product. You want to be, if I had to give the best advice, you want to really know what your message is, what you bring into the table really, really well. Because like for instance, when I did the TED Talk, you know, I uh it was my son, you know, I went to visit him last year. He's still in the army, so I went to visit him and I did my speech, and he gave me some advice, really good advice. He said that, you know, I I use notes when I speak, but he said that you need to just do it over and over again, memorize it like it's the back of your hand. And I did. So when I hit the stage, I I was a little bit nervous, but I wasn't nervous to the point where I didn't forget I forgot my message. So uh practice makes perfect, you know. You know that being an army guy, you know, you just have to do it over and over again, you know it like the back of your hand, and then and then also have a presence on social media. You know, you want to have a web, a webpage where you can post all your little like you got on my website, you can see all the events that I've done throughout the year and stuff like that. And just keep it, keep it going, you know. You know, you have something to say, so uh, and it's uh, you know, people want to hear it. So you just have to do your own, be your own promo guy.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Awesome, awesome.

Building A Platform That Lasts

SPEAKER_01 5:15

So building bridges of connection in a fragmented world. Now, I think your opening uh your opening statement that we're being programmed to create, define, and defend identities and accept controversial worldviews that will eventually cause us to abandon quality values such as truth, mutual respect, and integrity. Go on, Sergeant Roy.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

So talk to me about that, then I had to pray over this one. That message took, I say, I started on it just before Christmas

Opening Thesis: Programmed Division

SPEAKER_02 5:55

last year.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

And prayed about it, and I had all kinds of ideas, but you know, sometimes you get inspiration when you just kind of look around you and see what's going on. Of course, you see the uh the tension that's going on in our country. And it it just kind of saddles me because now, you know, you and I are old enough, man, to remember now people are getting on the news and the social media. I mean, people are not even telling the truth. The information is just it's all over the place. I mean, they're looking into the camera and they're just lying.

Media, Misinformation, And Strategy Of Chaos

SPEAKER_02 6:26

And I'm just sitting here going, wow, you know, and but then again, I realize uh after thinking about it, this is a planned strategy. I talk about it in my speech. It's a planned strategy to cause chaos, you know, and and and one of the things that when you control people is just trying to keep people confused, and and then I realized the new strategy is ignorance, you know, just keeping people ignorant. And you would think the the people in control want to want to inform you and want to give you, they they they give that, they present that image that they want to inform you and help you learn about things, but it's it's really quite the opposite.

Honoring Service And Sacrifice

SPEAKER_02 7:06

You know, uh they they tell you, even the news media, when you turn on the main strike mainstream news, it's the way they like I give you an idea of what I'm talking about, like, and you're you're a veteran, you know exactly what I'm what I'm saying. You know, when they say like a soldier has been uh unalived in action, you know, and the way they say it, it's almost like it's like it's almost like a like it's a shameful thing. Because you and I know that when we signed up for the military, that's part of our job. You know, there is a chance that we could probably get KIA or you know, not make it home. We we knew that when we raised our right hand. But it's just the way that they say it, when these soldiers and and all these service people, they get um injured or KIA and action and stuff, they make it like it's a bad thing. When in essence, it's a good thing. Because when I when I got called up in to go to Iraq in 2007, I had a little sit-down with my wife, and I told her, I said, hey, you know, we had that conversation. I said, if something happens to me, don't get on ABC, CBS, NBC crying and saying, oh, the military's bad, and look what they did to my husband. I sat her down and said, hey, that's one of my greatest accolades in my life is to serve this nation, to wear that uniform. Okay. And uh I may not have done a lot of things right, but when I've, you know, and I know, you know, you know what I'm talking about. When you put that uniform on, man, you feel like you're part of something.

Brotherhood And Rite Of Passage

SPEAKER_02 8:41

And uh, you know, having been a drill instructor for seven years when I was at Fort Jackson, I've seen some kids come through those gates. Some of them have nothing. And then at the end of basic training, boy, they're their confidence levels like to the roof. You know, and they feel like, you know, it almost makes you puts tears in your eyes because they feel like, you know, I tell them when they get ready to ship out, I said, hey, now you're a role model, you know, you you you made it, you know, and they feel like part of something. And you know, eventually those that, you know, if people don't say the whole 20 years or whether, whether you stay five years or 20 years or whatever, you we're we're part of a brotherhood. You know, we take care of each other. And I know you've heard the comments where people say, you vets, you know, you guys like meet at the airport and a restaurant, you guys like you know each other forever, but they they don't understand we have the same rite of passage. You know, you and I, I mean, I don't know the details of what you went through, but it's similar. It's the same thing. You know, in this days I wanted to quit. These days I wanted my mama, you know. And I told people when that when people's lives are over, you ask any service person, they're gonna remember their mama, their daddy, and their drill sucker.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

So let me ask you, what I mean you might have told me before, but what years were you at Fort Jackson?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

I was in Fort Jackson from 2000. I was there. So I got my hat in 2000.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Okay. I was there. Now I was a reservist drill, and my my unit is just outside the gates of Fort Jackson. So I was able to do a couple of cycles, and then even on a weekend, I can go in and out of the environment. Okay. And the rule is on the reserve side of the house, uh, like the the active duty, they're allowed to only be a drill sergeant for two years. But the reserve side, if you as long as you can physically do it, you can stay under the hat. Okay. You know, so I enjoyed it. It it was it was tough work. It was tough work, but I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

I can imagine. I I was just curious, uh, yeah, that you were there long after uh I had come through. But um well, I say long after, but I can't imagine much changed. Um because I w I got there um in eighty-eight. And uh

Fort Jackson Then And Now

SPEAKER_01 10:58

you were at Jackson? Yeah, or Jackson in 1988. And when I was there, the starship barracks were being built. They weren't they weren't even done yet.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

And so well the latest the latest latest new news on that is they're slowly tearing those down. Like half of those are down. Really? Yeah, because now if you remember, the starship was a great building because you can go in and out of it, but now what they did, they they knocked those down and kind of made it almost like dormitories, and then like now the PT field is behind the starship and the mess hall is on the same property. Because you remember when you got there, you had to march to the PT field, you had to march to the mess hall, you know. So it's all like in one area.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Well, that's the thing. I they were being built, they weren't done yet when I got there, so I never got to stay in those. Oh, did you stay in the old wooden ones? Oh, no, no, no, not those. I didn't stay in those. Oh, I've seen those kind of stuck together. Yeah. So um, so yeah, four, four units all kind of come together.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

And uh I think they still got those up. They ran them out for for TDY. People were just coming there, just temporary stay.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

But Fort Jackson, it's like they um, I mean, if you ever get a chance to go up there and drive around, they've kind of put uh and it's good, it consolidated everything, you know. My my only pet peeve is that if and you probably remember this, we marched everywhere. So, and these soldiers, man, they sit back here and they got these white buses that pull up.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

I'm saying, give me a break.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Uh Victory Tower, I take it, is still there? Uh or or what? Um, I retired um 2019. I said is Victory Tower still there.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Victory Tower there. Uh what's the um the hill?

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Um I know where the goat goes right in front of the uh old mimics. It's still there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

It's still there. It's still there. They still run it every once in a while.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Well, I think it has many names. We we used to call it drag a hill. Oh, gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

And I was calling cadence boy. I was trying to keep my breath, boy. You know, right? Yeah, because I what I was you know, the first couple weeks, I'm a rock star, you know. But when these soldiers start getting in shape, oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Well, you know, it's funny because um I guess in basic is where you get your get a taste of your first, what is it, 18 mile bowl march?

Training Reality: Bivouac To Grenades

SPEAKER_01 13:29

And I, you know, I don't know my way around. I, you know, you're in basic. It's like all you see is where you live, and then walk.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

That's it. So that's it. At 18 mile. I'm like That's a graduation requirement. And now they have to do, I think they do one short and one long. So I think the first one is like maybe a five miler, and then the other one's like, you know, 18 miles, 15, 18 miles. You have to do both, so you don't you don't graduate.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Call it a they call it bivouac. Yeah, bivwack. When you mark out to walk, march out to the site.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

That's white phase. You know, you get out there, that's all your ranges, and and you gotta throw a grenade. Oh man. You know, and I I would crack up laughing because we would they we go up to the uh, you know, you throw the practice ones, but then you go up to the actual place where you throw the grenades, and their eyes are this big and they're like terrified, boy. I we make up stories, and I'll just say, oh man, there's an NCO up there, he got three fingers, man. Yeah. Don't don't go up there. He's still mad at that private that dropped that grenade, and they just like Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

No, it's that was that was fun, and and you know, you said something earlier, like knowing you go in knowing that something might happen. And I'll just say, I think times are different now. I think people these these younger kids, depending on the MOS, let me just say it that way, they go in expecting nothing's gonna happen. You know what I mean? Like it's it's a it's uh it's all about school, it's all about, you know, that sort of thing. And when something pops off, it's the it's the it's certain MOSs that expected it, and others that are like, oh no, this is not what I signed up for. Well, actually it is, it is what you signed up for.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

It is. Um, you remember when the economy went bad and what was it, uh the early 2000s, you know, when the economy went bad? Oh, wait, yeah. And I was still under the hat, and I saw uh privates that were like in their early 30s, uh, people that came in, they gave them some of them they gave me E4 right off the bat. And that's and that's what I heard a lot when I was out there in the field. You know, they're like, hey, I came, you know, we you know how you do you have to hollow up with the drill sergeant, and the drill

Soldier First: Changing Battlefields

SPEAKER_02 15:52

sergeant asked you why did you come in? And some people like, oh, I came in for college or I came in for this or whatever. But one of the things we had to break it down to them, you know, we told them that, you know, warfare warfare has changed a lot. We used to teach the enemy was here and you were on the other side. Well, now the the battlefield is it's not linear, it's circular now. Because you saw during the Iraqi war, you know, the first time in Iraqi war, they were a couple of uh medical units got hit. A couple of um logistic units got hit. They didn't hit the the guys with the big guns in the front, so they kind of attacked from the side in the rear. So we would tell them that I would do you a disservice if I trained you halfway. You know, my job is to make sure you survive on the on a battlefield. And I have to admit, we, you know, during that whole conflict, we had you had some really good. I was really proud of my females. Some got some of them got some kills and did real well. You know, they they really did their soldiering skills. They didn't panic and stuff like that. So that's the whole thing that uh we try to drill into their head that you're a soldier. You're not a, yeah, you may be a cook or you may be a nurse or you may be, you know, a supply person or whatever, but you're a soldier first. And you know, my job is to teach you how to say, shoot, communicate, and move out.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Move on out. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

So back to your TED talk. There was a line in it. What did it say? We are being indoctrinated to put up walls of isolation,

Indoctrination Into Combative Identities

SPEAKER_01 17:30

division, that would afford us the luxury of creating this combative personality, this cantakerist. He used the word cantakerist. Had to put a little, put a put a little spice on it. Cantakerist personality that would disagree with anybody or anything. Talk to me about that. Where are you coming from with that?

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Well, I again, I'm looking at the generations that are in front of me. And sometimes you can get on social media and some people will go out there and do what you call a man on the street, you know, just walk up to younger people and ask them questions about our government or ask them what's going on in the world. Or they I saw one guy, he walked up with some photographs of famous people. And he said, Who is this person? It was like maybe like President Clinton or, you know, uh people uh uh in our in our history. And these young people didn't have a clue what was going on. And but yet when you ask them questions on some of the things that's going on, they will they they're very quick to go into this combative stage where they're arguing and this and that. And they'll they they talk about the current administration right now, and you say, okay, I I respect your feelings, but give me evidence to why you feel that way. And I say, to be fair, eight times out of ten, they can't tell you. So what it is, they're going off on emotionalism. And that bugs me because I can respect you. I mean, like I also said in my speech, there's no rule that says we have to agree on everything. I don't I don't expect that. But yet I think everybody should be able to speak intelligently to their beliefs. Tell me why. I just, you know, maybe I'm looking at something

Emotion Vs Evidence In Debate

SPEAKER_02 19:15

wrong. Maybe you can educate me. But if you're just, you know, stirred up in your emotions, it's not gonna help because emotions will can change at any time. And uh the you know, the the powers to be, they like that, you know, and that's the part that gets me mad. Like I give you an example. I remember like um even in the African American culture, I get upset because nowadays you got young black kids complaining about slavery, and I'm like, wait a second, you don't even have a clue what that is. Uh maybe, maybe you're you need to go talk to your grandmother or your great-grandmother, great-grandfather. They know. And like I'm third generation out of Alabama that went to college. So my my great-grandfather, I've got a picture of him, he was a sharecropper in Alabama. So these people knew what it was like. And but I I try to get them to understand you you're doing

History, Memory, And Progress

SPEAKER_02 20:13

a disservice to these people because they laid the pathway for us to go further. And your job is to go further, not to go backwards. So you can't really argue something that you've never experienced before. Because, you know, racism to them might be what a dirty look where somebody just calls you a name. Whereas my dad, uh, he grew up in Montgomery, Alabama, and you know the film with the firefighters spraying the protesters. My father was there. And my dad used to tell me stories. I couldn't even believe it. But he he he's one of my heroes. He worked hard. He said, You're going to school, you're going to college, you're going to do this. And he never graduated high school. But he worked hard to make sure that we would got better. So that's what I'm saying about the, you know, but the people, they gotta understand, and that's what I think I'm on a mission to try to get people to think. You know, it's not that I'm trying to change your mind, I'm just trying to get you to understand. You gotta understand why you believe what you believe, and you gotta be able to understand it. And if you can understand your beliefs, then you can speak, you can make an intelligent decision. And you know, especially in the thing with the race relations, I had a uh a discussion with my goddaughter. She was just, ooh, but she's a radical. But I said, I asked her, I said, where in your life, she has I've been to her house, a beautiful house, she got a beautiful car. I said, Where are you struggling? Where are you suffering because of slavery or racism? And she couldn't answer me. But she could tell me emotionally and I know where the emotions come from. And I said, You you're doing yourself a disservice because you need to go further. You need to put, you know, down some real solid roots and don't focus on that. I mean, it's a it's what happened historically. I'm not saying ignore it, but I'm just saying you

One Color: Green

SPEAKER_02 22:06

use that to to do better. You know.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

You know, and you know, you remember us being in the military. You remember the first week of basic training, you remember drill sergeant said, I only see one color, green. That's it. And that's why I love the military so much, because like, you know, we had to, you know, we had to work together. You know, like when you're when your drill sergeant gave you your battle buddy, he said, when I come in the next day, you better have that, you better know that soldier's name, if they're married, if they got kids, where they're from. No ifs, ers, or buts. It had nothing to do about whether you like somebody. Has nothing to do with it. And that's where we're right now, where uh the generations are getting to the point that thing for them to do something, they have to like it. I mean, and there's no resilience whatsoever. They just have to like it. And I said, boy, oh boy, my grandmama was here, good Lord have mercy. She snatched the slack out of them, boy. I tell you. That's why I said when I went to basic training bed, I didn't have a problem. I got yelled at on a weekly basis about Moppet and sweeping floors. And then when the man was

Resilience Over Comfort

SPEAKER_02 23:18

screaming about, I remember I got nervous because everybody sitting there getting nervous about Moppet and sweeping floors. I did that on a weekly basis.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Well, so let me ask you this. So the the when you speak about building bridges in a fragmented world. Uh so since you've been spreading this message, have you gotten any pushback? Anyone disagreed or anything like that? Just did has anyone ever said, ah, that's not gonna work?

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah, I've run into I get on sometimes I get on some of these discussion threads on social media, and I try to interject. I get on TikTok sometimes too, and and sometimes the the people, uh, depending on who's running the discussion, the radicals are just like, oh, well, you know, be quiet, and they'll curse me out, and they'll just say, hey, really? And we really get really mean and and uh vulgar with the language and stuff. And I I try to explain to them, I said, hey, but your world, you this is only you can only go so far with that. You know, you're asking for a lot, but you're not willing to give a lot. You know, if you want to be a

Pushback And Online Radicalism

SPEAKER_02 24:36

manager of a company, if you want to have great accolades of success, you're gonna have to make your circles bigger. I talk about it in my speech. It's that you have to expand your circles. Like, for example, my uh my my niece, she was uh we're at a dinner party, she's going on about how fair unfair life is and this and that. And I I just for kicks and giggles, I said, give me your cell phone. I pulled up her cell phone, I pulled up her her social media page and I said, You notice anything different? She said, No. I said, Everybody looks like you. That's only as far as you're gonna go. And you to be successful, you got to be able to relate to all kinds of people. If you want to, and I told them the people that they admire, the people that they really look up to. You look at some of the successful people, like Barack Obama, you know, he's very well spoken, you know, he's gone to school, he's educated himself. You, if you want to go down that road, that's

Expand Your Circles, Expand Your Life

SPEAKER_02 25:41

where you have to go. And I could tell you, D Rose, the thing that I'm worried about right now, if we keep, if we keep this narrative going on, pretty soon it's gonna, it's gonna age out and pretty voyant you to the point where the rest of the world's getting sick and tired of hearing it. You know, because I've seen uh on social media, even the Africans that come over here, they don't understand why we're complaining. They just they don't get it. You know, they say, like, wow, you got schools, you can do this, you can do that. What are you complaining about? You know, but you have to be able to, the the true success in life, you have to be able to relate to all kinds of people. You just can't pick and choose. Even the Bible says that. You know, Jesus says, you know, what does it matter if you just you love your own? That's the only as far as you're gonna go. You know, but if you want to be a leader, if you really want to make an impact in this world of people, you're gonna have to learn how to communicate and and just at least connect with all kinds of people. And it's not, and again, I want to put a note there. I'm not saying agree with everybody, but just connect and talk. And you'll be surprised how much you can learn from each other and work out differences. And I'm embarrassed, even in our country, you got our congressmen, they're going up there in Washington, and um, and I know you can understand this as being a service guy. They those those senators or whoever, those congresspeople literally didn't vote. They voted the opposite way. And

Productivity Over Labels

SPEAKER_02 27:12

you remember when the government was shut down, shut down for like 60, 60 days or whatever?

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

I got mad, and I'm not gonna even choose sides. I yeah, I'm a military guy, and I know when I was a drill, you don't mess with people's money.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

You don't beans, they take that talk, I was a supply guy, beans, bullets, and mail. You don't mess with it. And these people were so, so just wanted to be right that a whole bunch of civilians that work for the government, they get paid for for almost two months. And that's wrong on every no matter how you look at it.

unknown 27:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

You know, so that really ticked me off. And we can't get into a society where we're just just resentful, we're spiteful, we're gonna do mean things. Because if you're that type of person, uh you you won't work for me. You you definitely won't work for me. It's not gonna not gonna happen. You know, but I can I can welcome the idea that if we have a disagreement, let's sit down and talk about it, let's figure it out. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe you're missing something. We can come to an agreement and work it out. I don't see that happening.

Black Dollar, Scale, And Reach

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Yeah, I think I think um I totally get where you're coming from. I can also understand the pushback. Uh depending on which segment that you're of of society you're dealing with, I can understand the pushback uh in terms of I won't say not building bridges, but at least being extremely cautious when you do.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah, you of course. And I I even mentioned that too. You have to be uh you're gonna be exposed, but that's that's the risk you take. But but the thing is that I think it the reward is it's it far exceeds the risk. Because if you're willing to put yourself out there, like on I like my uniform, I I had people tell me, oh, well, you got you made E9, somebody gave that to you. No, no, sir. Wow. Nobody never gave that to me. I work for that. And maybe, maybe some people got it uh before I did or whatever, but I made E9. And I was in circles with colonels and generals and and all that, and I was respected because not because of the color of my skin, but I was respected because I was willing to here here we go now. Boiler the curse word to do the work.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

So how do you think it is that we're being indoctrinated? And and why?

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Well, one of the things is I noticed one of the strategies is when you to deal with poor people, uh one of the ways you can control them is to give them things. Just give them things and and get them dependent upon you. You know, even in my my work with the church and stuff, and I do charity work and I'm working with, you know, people are disadvantaged and stuff. The

Tulsa, Sabotage, And Rebuilding

SPEAKER_02 30:05

best thing, it's an old African proverb. It says that if you want to feed a man for a lifetime, don't give him a fish. Teach him how to fish. Because if he learns how to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime. So one of the things, there's a new term out there nowadays that call, it's called toxic empathy. And that's like really having this type of empathy for people where there's no accountability whatsoever. So getting people dependent upon you. And that's where you got uh types of government like socialism. You know, when I went over when I went over to visit my son, I had a chance to go to Italy, I had a chance to go to uh Great Britain, London, had a chance to go to Poland. Those are all socialist countries. And you can't own anything over there. There's no way. You know, they everything's dependent. The government, they pay, you know, every everybody gets a government subsidized apartment, but you as far as like buying your house or buying a car or something like that, very few. Very few. You can't own anything. So that makes you dependent upon the government.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

You know, and that's the thing is you can hurt somebody, you know, like that. You can stifle their growth. Because I truly believe that everybody has value. I think everybody can, you know, has something to bring to the table. And I think to build a person's confidence

Generational Wealth And Narratives

SPEAKER_02 31:31

is to let them be who they are, let them develop into the person that they are, because one of the things that's so good for the, for the, for your spirit is to uh, it even says in the Bible that the hands, the sleep of a laborer is always sweet, you know, with work. You know, it's just when you make something or you do something, it gives you that that little dope dash of dopamine, you know, you feel good about yourself and it builds confidence. But if you have to rely on somebody doing it for you and sitting here, you it's almost like you stunt their growth emotionally and stuff like that. And I've seen that. I grew up poor. And I saw, you know, that's why I don't like the welfare system because I grew up, members of my family are on it. And when they, you know, time for them to come and to do something, like maybe get a job that they want or whatever, they they won't do it. They just, they've been relying on things for a very, very long time and they get intimidated by it and they play. And there's another word that I threw in my speech. I don't think I put it in my speech, but it's one thing I teach about. It's called victimization. Victim. Because uh, especially with the African uh American people, we're not victims. We are not victims. And we have a society, yeah, there was at one time, you know, the uh in American history that, yeah,

Don’t Lead With Disadvantage

SPEAKER_02 33:01

we were given things because we were, you know, almost like accepted like we couldn't learn or we couldn't start our own businesses and stuff, but we can do those things, you know. And you don't, it's just, you know, the worst thing you can do is treat a person like a victim because they they won't grow. They become so dependent upon you. You know, and that's the thing that really worries me, especially young people. Oh my gosh. You're sitting here 24, 25, and you you're saying you're disadvantaged. I mean, Sarge, I'd be I'll go right out, I'll go down and go get some milk, and I've seen at least 10 help wanted signs. You know? Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Well, let me ask you this. Is there, do you do you see, like on the flip side, is there ever a situation when it is best to kind of run with your own, if you will, with your tribe, with your like with like minds? Is is there ever a time that uh that is appropriate?

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Well, you just said it, like-minded, yes. Because I've been around very successful black people as well, as well as as uh people from other cultures. Um I I don't see it, I think that's a mistake that um I have uh my daughter-in-law from Puerto Rico, and uh I see it in a lot of cultures. Everybody just kind of it's like they they cling to their own. And there's nothing wrong with that. But however, the

Role Models Beyond Entertainment

SPEAKER_02 34:31

world doesn't, you look outside the world and how it's functioning and where the greater rewards are, you you're gonna have to step outside that circle. And I don't have a problem with that. Uh I just the circles that I'm in, they have to bless me, encourage me, educate me, motivate me. I don't care what you look like. And I've had relatives of mine push me, as well as uh people who are not from my culture. But it shouldn't, it's the exception, it's not the rule.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

I don't see it as an exception. I just see it as a I don't see it as a rule, I just see it as an exception. Because I've been around very uh uh uh very successful African American uh people that have done really, really well. And I enjoy that. But when you hear them talk, they talk about you know proactive things, they talk about building their business, or they're talking about uh achievements, you know, what what's the next thing, what's the next project? You know, I eat that stuff up, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

So what about say economically, and I'm talking economic power. Um and and you know, I think it's it's been well documented that the term black dollar, um, it seems as though our community is the only one where our the majority of our money is spent in other communities where other communities don't work that way. Um what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah, I I've heard of that before, but I

Guidance, College, And Expectations

SPEAKER_02 36:09

I know that one of the things that is this world's getting down to the point where it comes down to productivity. Because when you start making money and you start getting at those higher levels, they don't care what you look like. They really don't. Um and again, it's just it's that thing of like, yeah, I even my my aunt, when I grew up, she had a mom and pop shop in our neighborhood. It was only black customers and stuff like that, and I get that. And and that's fine, but you you have to project yourself. You're gonna run a business, like I give you an example. I don't want to, you know, skip over it, but like one day I was going into work, I was listening to the black radio station, gospel station, and I'm listening to all these commercials, and they're saying, uh, black insurance company, black owned this and this, black owned this and that. And I'm just like, and I got offended for some reason. Because when I heard that ad, okay, black owned this and that. So that means you just want black customers. That that's just your lane. But what about, you know, that there's nothing, you know, nothing inviting you. You might have Spanish customers or German customers or China or Asian customers. You want money's money. You know, I don't care what you look like. You know, but if you're gonna target just a black audience and the black dollar, that that's what it only goes so far.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Well, I think that I I I hear what you're you're saying, and and I'm not one way or another. I'm just you know just putting it out there. But there must be something to the

Agency, Faith, And Calling

SPEAKER_01 37:50

consolidation of black dollars because otherwise there wouldn't have been such an effort to tear down the black wall streets and the black um economic centers and and I'm talking tear them down, destroy them, burn them down, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Yeah, I I know what you're saying because I'm here in Oklahoma. I'm gonna go visit, uh I've just recently re-relocated here. I'm gonna go visit Tulsa, that those historical sites, where they call that the Black Wall Street. And I'm a history buff. So, but and uh historically, yeah, uh even in the days of Montgomery, uh black businesses were doing really well. And there were a lot of tax on black businesses because we became not dependent upon the system.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

You know, so we had our own businesses, we had our own uh economy that was doing quite well for us, and then they sabotaged it in a lot of ways because they didn't want to see it flourished. And my only response to that is, you know, knock it down, we'll build it back up.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Well, so so that being said, why the offense when you hear all of these people saying black-owned, black businesses, black so

Ostracized For Succeeding

SPEAKER_01 39:04

on and so forth? Because that kind of is how you build it back up.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

Well, yeah, you do build it up, but but times have changed. You know, these kids, these young people, now if you look at them, they're really integrating really well. You know, and and they're just starting to, it's it's not as divided as it was like when my dad's time in the in the 50s and the 60s and stuff like that. Because I, you know, I remember as a kid, I I grew up part of my life in Boston that was very, very short at the time. And uh my auntie would tell me, don't go to this store, but go to this store, you know, because of they had some issues back in the 70s, uh, Boston. But times have changed. You know, if you want to start a business, I think it's it's kind of an open, uh, it's a it's an open gate now. You can flourish, you know. I mean, if you want to stay like in a in a in a black neighborhood and have black customers, nothing wrong with that. I I don't fault you on that. But if you want to build, you know, you want to be the next AT ⁇ T or the next Google or or whatever, you want to, you know, one of the big dogs, you're gonna have to open that gate a little bit bigger. That's all I'm saying. You know, I mean, hey, I I know people that, you know, they live in a in a cultural neighborhood and they just do very well. They run a mom and pop shop, they love it. No, no harm, no foul. And they know that's what they want to do. But if you want to run with the big dogs, you want to run with uh, you know, the Jeff Bezos and uh, you

Showcasing Quiet Excellence

SPEAKER_02 40:40

know, and Facebook people and all that stuff like that, you're gonna have to make the stakes higher.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Well, you know, I it it's it's interesting. Again, it's just an observation that when you talk about the big dogs, you know, the Fortune 100s, right? And you look at all of them, and you look at who's at the head and at the table at the head, they don't look like us. So in order to, you know, get to that level where those types of companies exist that look like us, you kind of have to start with the black-owned, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:19

You kind of have to cater to the Well, I I I and I'm glad we were discussing it because I disagree, because here's why. Because uh I I even wrote a letter to B.E.T., you know, the Black Entertainment Television. And I wrote it to the editor, and I said, every time I get on your station, I see rappers, athletes, singers, and our people are doing great things. We're doing great things, but you're not you're not promoting it. Because I I I I know of some there are of some successful black people, they're not being featured. You would never know they were there, that they had businesses, that they're doing really well. If they if they weren't promoted. But in our culture, this is another thing I get mad at in our culture. We promote the athletes, we promote the singers, we promote the athletes and and and the entertainers, you know. But

What’s Next For Sgt. Roy

SPEAKER_02 42:15

what about the kid or the girl, the young man or the young woman who doesn't want to be a basketball player, who doesn't want to be a singer. Because I know I was born, you know, I was born in the 60s and 70s. And the only time I saw a famous black person or wealthy black person, let's put it that way, they were with somebody like Muhammad Ali, an athlete, you know, uh Duke Ellington, you know, and I, you know, all these people that were entertainers and singers. But, you know, then all of a sudden, like around in the 80s, Ben Carson shows up and he's a neuros uh uh surgeon, he's a brain surgeon. And I'm like, where'd this guy come from? Never heard of him. You know, so that's the thing. I'm just saying that because and I grew up in a sports town, you know, my basketball coach would yell at me, he'd say, Lewis, you would be a great basketball player. I but I just wanted to play for fun. Okay, okay. All right, you were a hooper. Okay. But he coached my brother. My brother went on to get a full ride to SMU.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

But I didn't, I it I

Youth, Men’s Ministry, And Legacy

SPEAKER_02 43:22

it wasn't in my blood, but I had a good knack for business. I had a good knack for doing other things. But the kids that have those other aspirations, you where are the role models? I know they're out there. I'm not saying they're not out there. They're out there. They're just not being showcased.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

What if uh you, you know, that that kind of brings it full circle in terms of of this line of discussion because when you say to B E T, you're only promoting athletes, entertainers, so on and so forth. Where are the others who are doing very well? What if the answer is Their stuff got burnt down in Tulsa. That's why you're not seeing them. And if you are, they're sporadic and they're they've been forced to integrate into a system where the top is already crowded. That's why you don't see them.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

I I disagree. I got I got six stripes on my arm that says that. Because now what I will say, maybe there I there were times I thought that I was probably being dis you know taken advantage of or discriminated against. But I believe that our people are resilient. We've always been resilient. We had to be to make it in this country. And that's the part of our culture that I'm very, very, very proud of that I think we we're not embracing. I don't need your handout. I just need an opportunity and let me go. You know, I don't need you to feel sorry for me. And and I know I've stood in circles where I was the only black face in the

Gratitude, Health, And Community

SPEAKER_02 45:00

room. And people looked at me and I sometimes felt that look, you know, that vibe. Right, right. And at the end of it all, they came home, shook my hand, and said, hey. You know, it's kind of the way confirming me that I was legit. And I I agree. It I agree. It's it's sometimes those situations are not gonna be fair. But then again, I tell my children, where's the book that says life has to be fair? It doesn't exist. And I think what it is, we try to make it fair. And I think that's one of the problems with our people. We try to make it fair, but it's not gonna be fair. It's never gonna be fair. So you got to take those lemons and make lemonade.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

I hear you.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

And it's it's rough. I I get it. I mean, because there are times, man, I am 66 year old, Sarge. And there were times in my life I had to swallow back some tears. You know, but I they're not gonna break me. They're just not gonna break me. But that's what I'm saying. I I don't I disagree that where it's so hard that we're not gonna make it because we are making it. Because I met Mr. Johnson, who used to own the Bobcats in Charlotte.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

I was at a game and I looked at him. I was got, I hope I didn't think I hope he didn't think I was weirdo. That dude's a billionaire, right? And I'm looking at him, I'm just like, hot diggity dog. That that's a that's a black millionaire. Oh my goodness. And I was, I had my chest out. I was like, yeah, man, he owned a podcast.

Promote, Donate, Stay Connected

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Right, you know, and and but there's a lot more of us out there doing things, and that's the part I get mad at. We're not showcasing it because I turn on BET and there's T.I., the rapper, sitting around, he's got a whole bunch of high school kids sitting around, sitting around him, and he's giving advice. He can't give you advice. He's a rapper. You know, and he's had gun charges, multiple gun charges on him. What's he gonna tell you? Who's he gonna tell you?

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Well, you know, he's he's he's he's a little more than a rapper. But you know, here's the thing, though. And again, first let me just say your accomplishments commendable. Commendable.

Closing Cadence And Carrying On

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Uh you know, hats off to you for for everything that you've accomplished. I think that you know, again, when we go to the Bezos and the and all of them, the the Elon Musks and even your current president um you're dealing with generational wealth, right? And going back to the tulsos of the world, that generational wealth was stymied, it was cut off, it stopped. So the generations had to start over. And I think that a lot of the young people can't articulate why they feel the way they do because of that. They they just know it's not they call well, you said, well, it's not it's not a matter of, you know, um, life doesn't have to be fair. But to be fair, their generational wealth stream got cut off in so many cities across the United States.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

I I agree, I agree with that up to the extent of that I think what we do with our kids, you don't send them out and put that in their brain, letting them know they're starting off with a disadvantage. You know, because at some point, I don't care where you are in life, you're gonna have to learn how to handle failure. You're gonna have to handle it. It's that's a that's a normal, I don't care who you are. But you can't send our kids out with that that idea that they're disadvantaged, you know, uh that they there's something, if they fail, it's because somebody didn't treat them right or they didn't get this right. You you you send them out with they, yeah, they may have to work harder, you know, and they should work harder, but putting that idea, it stunts your growth. It does something to this, to the human spirit, you know, because there, and believe it or not, there was a time in my life I used to think that way. And there were times I was like, okay, well, I didn't get this. Well, I guess I'm not good enough. You know, I'm just it just gets in my brain, well, that's they those are those people, and these are these people. But as time went on, and like I said, I saw, like I was working for a bank one time, and IBM sent uh some uh repairmen in to uh to fix our computers, and in their team, there was one black guy. And I kept looking at him because I've never seen an IBM like I have from IBM. And I'm not making this up, man. I'm just I'm just looking at him.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

I'm sitting there, wow. And uh him and I got to be friends later on in life, but I'm sitting there, his name is Quincy. I said, Quincy. You know, and he told me his story. He went to school, you know, put himself through school, and he worked hard. And I I got when he shared his story to me, I got fired up. Because then in my mind, I'm like, if he could make it, I could make it. You know? And um, and there's and but yeah, you got generational wealth. And I and I agree with that, but that's so what? You know, that doesn't mean anything. You know, I mean to me that doesn't mean anything. You know, yeah, you got it from your mom and daddy, because uh my case in poor, you got the uh Biden, you saw his son, he they got him on film, smoke a crack over there in China. He's over there acting a fool. They got him on, that's why they they put him to the rear real quick. Yeah, because he was out there doing all kinds of crazy stuff. That doesn't mean that you I've met a lot of wealthy people, and their kids doesn't mean that they're gonna be successful. It doesn't mean that they're gonna, you know, sure they got money, but it doesn't mean they're gonna be successful as their father, you know. But I I just very sensitive about putting that idea in a kid's mind that, okay, you're starting off already disadvantaged. And that's not true. You know, I just you know, that's that's that's my faith as well, you know. I think because I think everybody is is different. And but I I just believe in people just grasping their talents and finding out who they are and just going for it, you know, just going for it. And sure you're gonna and you're gonna you're gonna mess up, but when you do fail, at least fail with the with the idea of like, well, hey, maybe I didn't try hard enough or I didn't study hard enough or I didn't do this, but don't blame somebody. You know, take responsibility for for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Yeah, I I I think that's that's great advice. And I just say that, you know, um I think that thing imagine a young person who is finally kind of they started a business, they're getting their legs up under them. Um they I think would look to our I think that they would um look to our generation, to us for approval or you know, at least uh Yeah, they're they're supposed to.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

The Bible says the older teach, the younger, you know.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Right, right. But here's the thing, and here's here's one thing I would um hope that you would consider is that when they come up in the environment, they build their business, they're they're trying to make it, and they so call and they and they just so happen to have a commercial that says black owned, I would hope that it doesn't offend you. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 52:41

Like no, no, I'm not gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

Like because when you said it earlier, like you heard all of these black this, black, that, and you got offended. I'm thinking about those business owners who would look to you for support, you know what I mean? And would hate to d offend you. They wouldn't want to offend you.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

Yeah, I I don't think that's the intent. Uh not at all. I mean when I say I get offended, um I know they're business owners. And what's their objective? They want to make profit. So money is still green last time I checked. So, you know, I don't know their business strategies, I don't know any of that. It just is the way that it's promoted. And to me, it's like the advertisers just saying, hey, black-only, black-owned businesses means only black customers only. That's the way I know it's just the way it sounds.

SPEAKER_04 53:29

You know?

SPEAKER_02 53:30

And that that's what I'm saying. And and I I tell you another thing that really just kind of saddens me where as we're talking about the subject, that when I I've seen a lot of a lot of successful black people get ostracized. And I've that's happened to me before. I don't know if it's happened to you before, where when I was doing really well, uh I've had people call me Uncle Tom or like the one that really grinds my gears, why are you talking white? And I just, oh, man, I you want to get you wanna set me off? And I'm sitting there and go, so you mean black people can't talk up a certain way. Right. And I've uh I remember in our hometown, uh, one of the black families uh after a while was able to buy one of the nice houses in the white neighborhood. And man, they ostracized that family. They just said, oh, they were like this, they were like that. I was like, come on, people. I mean, we're supposed to be lifting each other up, you know, and and we're dealing with that too, you know. And I was just like, come on. You know, I mean, Uncle Tom, I mean, that I I got called that just a couple months ago in this day and age. So uh it's I I just pray now. It's rough, you know.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Well, no, you know, I I want to say that you hit right on one of the reasons why I even started this podcast. Because black veterans, it's not just black, any veteran of color, you're gonna catch it from all directions, from below, from your peers, and from above. And you'll catch it the more you elevate in society. And and you know, during my doctoral studies, I found that out. You know, and it wasn't it it it wasn't uh some of the resistance came from those who looked like me and those who didn't.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Yeah right? So so you're catching it from all angles.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

How did you feel when when you uh if you you don't mind me asking, how did you feel when you felt that come at you? What was your response?

SPEAKER_01 55:40

Well, my my uh I'll I'll just say I think my my attitude is a little different. Um because uh when it when I felt that response, it came at a time in my life where I didn't even want to go to seminary. God put me there. So I had no, you know, it was like there's no human being that's gonna come at me and have and and and derail me.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

God put me here. God made me do this. I didn't I hate I hate school. Can I can I say that? I don't like school, but God said you're gonna go to school. You're gonna go to school. And so when that happened, right, I yeah, I'm not listening to you. I'm listening to the man up above. So now had that happened at a different time in my life when I wasn't as mature and I in and in my in my faith, in my walk, it might have affected me differently, but not this time. It was like, I'm on a mission from God, literally. This is not, you know. So different time maybe it may have impacted me. But not.

SPEAKER_02 56:49

I mean, you you have your doctorate degree and and and people look at you and and my form opinions, you know, like, well, hey, you know, who do you think you are? I mean, it's almost I know I had to be careful because like when I was achieving stuff, I almost felt guilty. You know, I kind of want to suppress myself so I can just fit in. Um, because, you know, it was just that thing where, you know, people would get this uh animosity going on, and and you know, I can imagine people say, okay, he's got his doctorate degree, who do you think he is? He's out there doing all this stuff. But I you you answered the question for me. You were doing it for God, so that was your focus. You know, I can only imagine if God wasn't your focus and you wouldn't have been able to do those things.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Yeah, yeah. I and and I and I can look back at a time of my life when I wasn't as mature, and I probably wouldn't have handled it the same way. But I, you know, at this stage of my life and and knowing um having been able to achieve what I believe God called me to do.

SPEAKER_02 57:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

I'm good. It it that does something for the psyche, you know.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

But that's that's what I want the kids to see. I want the kids to see people like you. Because, like I said, everybody's not a basketball player, everybody's not a singer, everybody's not an entertainer, but our people are doing fantastic things out there with education and businesses, and and that's what we need to see. Um, because it's the world is changing a lot, you know, it's it's really changing. And I remember that fear I had when I was a young man of like, okay, I'm not, you know, I don't have the aspirations for basketball or football, or going, you know, I wanted to even play in a band, you know, back in the day, you know, that was the thing. But I didn't want to do these things, so what's what is there left for me? And I I remember vividly remembering the mentality I had growing up in the 70s, like, okay, I'll just get a job and work and hopefully get married and and like me and my best friend, we were talking about this the other day. It's funny you should mention that. We were talking about when we got to uh graduation, you know, we went into talk to we know it's all the white kids were planning to go to all these schools and everything. They were getting their transcripts together and all this, and we and him and I both vividly remembered that the guys' counselor, especially the black kids, they didn't really ask us. You know, and we remember, and the heat, the ISMD, was that his experience? He said, Yeah, you know, they just, you know, just asked us, what do you want to do? Whatever. And it was like, but we did notice all our schoolmates, they were like getting their letters together and putting in their, you know, letters and trying to get into these schools, and it was never a thought for any of the black kids, you know. We just and the ones that really were going somewhere, they're the ones that had scholarships, basketball scholarships, or football scholarships, or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 59:49

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 59:50

That kind of thing. But um it's it's really a shame. I just really want uh, especially this new generation, to understand that they are they are not a mistake, they are not disadvantaged at all. And they can do whatever they want to. And I'm not saying it's not good, it's you know, starting a business is not a it's not an easy thing to do. Starting a uh, you know, other than those things I just mentioned, but it's it's not easy because I'm my son-in-law, I'm here in Oklahoma. My son-in-law has been running successfully for almost 12 years now. He owns a martial arts academy, and he's done it very quite well for himself. And he married my daughter, you know, and I remember when that business started, and he's uh at one time he he had as many as three schools.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

He's doing really well. And that's the thing that I think our our generations need to see. You know, there are you know, they don't they don't have to be famous, but there are people out there doing these these great things.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

They're doing phenomenal things, you know. Um and they just need to be exposed to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

Well, I tell you, if you just uh keep on doing those TED Talks, man, get out there and uh keep on sharing.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

It's a challenge, you know. Uh again, you know, I when you go into circles and you know this being a service guy, you know, I remember when I made first sergeant, and I remember I had to write these two NCOs up, but they were two black guys, and they came in my office and they were just late for formation all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

And and they kind of the way they approached me, it's like, well, hey, you know, you know, hey, you know, just pencil whip it, you know, you know, it's not a big deal. And I had to write them up. I had to, you know, write them up, and they they really got mad at me. And I think somebody told me that they they accused me of being racial to them or something like that. You know, I'm just like, really? Wow, you know, I've got you, you've been coming to formation late every every week. What do you want me to do? I can't show partiality, you know. Right. Yeah, that's sitting there like that. But it I I think it's it's I I have no regrets. You know, I mean, I know people are gonna, and uh I congratulations to you on your I see your awards right there, your your doctorate degree right there. And I just got one from a Bible institute myself, you know. Okay. I can imagine the work that you had to do to get that thing, and that's the thing I'm I'm really impressed with. And that's the kind of things I want, you know. It's there, you know, with this generation, it's there if you do the work. I mean, I'm thinking about putting that on a t-shirt. Just do the work. Just because as you go up the ladder, really, after a while, nobody really cares what you look like because it this world is all about productivity. You know, and I learned that because like when I was working at the bank, man, you had all these people come over here from India. When they came over in the 90s, they would have they had jobs. Now they're managers now. Now they're vice presidents right now. Them people work. You know, they don't some barely speak English, but they put they make money for the company. That's what it's all about, productivity. You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

Well, in terms of productivity, what what's what's next for Sergeant Roy? What's happening with you next? What you got, what you got coming down the pike?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

Well, I'm trying to get a couple of things out because I want to get on the big tech talk stage. Uh they do some big meetings. They got one coming up this year in Canada. I think there's one coming up in London. And um just hope that I can get, you know, picked to be on those things right there. And then sometimes I focus on the smaller stuff. I try to get in front of audiences with uh young people because I I started out being a youth pastor when I was in a church and I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

And I and young people and even minority young people is even better. Um that's that's where my heart is, you know, because I if you remember my last show, I told you about my son was my problem child. He was my problem child. And he just I got him to join the reserves and find out he just he found his niche. And then finally he went over to the dark side. He went from a non-commissioned officer to a warrant officer. Uh oh. So, you know, I said, okay. And now he's a CW3, he's up for CW4. Okay, right on. Yeah, he's doing really well. And and I crack up last. It's funny how God works things out because he's got three of my grandkids. Uh, the oldest one is 15. And we were over, like I said, we were over there last last year for the holidays, and he's chewing my oldest grandson out about something. And I said, wait a second. I said, Who's that sound like? It's you. That's the split copy of you. And I said, that's how God pays you back. He gives you a Xerox copy of yourself. Right. And laughing. I said, Yeah, he's just like you. He's a little slickster, but he's just like you. And I love his wife. I mean, his wife is like, she's she's dead on it. You know, but that you know, the thing is now, I'm I'm just kind of being a grandpa. Yeah, I got three of my my grandkids here, and then like I said, we visit our son when we can. And but on as far as speaking, I try to get in, you know, I like to do some stuff with the high schools. Uh as far as the church, I like I work a lot with the men's ministry because I'm a real big advocate of godly men.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

But God has given me a heart for that to see men be what God has called them to be. And uh, I know you understand that as a uh you are you a pastor now?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

Minister.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

A minister? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

So I know you understand that. And uh uh I try to serve there in the church and stuff like that. But just like I said earlier, uh I'm just praying to the Lord, just put me where I'm supposed to be, because like I said, I don't want to be like on tour, like traveling five times a month or whatever, because I I I'm retired. I this is the first time in my life I got my freedom. And I'm, you know, before I retired, I was so, so busy, so busy. But to sit here and have coffee and even just a conversation with you, sir, i is is is priceless. I I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

Yeah, absolutely. I I enjoy it as well. And I I thank you for the time. Um but I think that uh your message needs to get out there, man. I think, you know, uh God willing and and whatever he says, be obedient. You know, look at that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

Yeah, uh I I and and Betrieby and you, uh, you know, and I like some of the things that you said, and you know, what you said to me about that it's true. I gotta be careful. But I I'm as far as our people, I I just get mad because I know the world's taking advantage of those wounds. You know, the world's you know, you if you notice when it the election time comes around, they they start playing those hitting those uh hot buttons. You know, and our people get so, you know, that that spirit of unforgiveness just thrives up, you know. And I'm just praying that, you know, Lord, we get we gotta move past that. You know, because the world is becoming so advanced now. And um I mean people are congregating together now, these are the young kids now. They you know, I crack up laughing, they wear, they they wear the clothes that we used to wear and they dance, they dance better than we do. I turned on the I turned on the video one time. I saw social media, this wasn't America. Chinese kids. I don't know if you ever saw the one they were dancing to Jay's Brown. Oh, yes, yes. Kango hats on and Adidas, and I'm like, what? I said, Oh my goodness, man. They look cooler than than we did.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

Well, they say history repeats itself.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:38

Yeah, yeah, they just sit in there, they they love the whole swagger, you know, the whole thing. And I'm not mad at I ain't mad at you. You know, but I just wanted to see us move past that because when we get into those deep, those deep places, we don't seem to move. And it's like I think the the higher ups like it that way. They just somebody comes in there and say, hey, hey, didn't this happen? You know, hey, didn't this happen? And then we get all worked up and you know, drinking and cooling and we don't move, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:04

I hear you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

You know but I I'm I'm hopeful, you know, God's gonna do do do a thing. I'm just praying for a revival, I guess. You know, but you know, but I thank you for your work too, as as well, D. Thank you for inviting me. Oh, yeah. I was glad to be here anytime. I thought I was sitting here circling back and I said, Oh, I found your email and and I post your recordings on my website so people are listening to them. And I've got you linked too so they can donate too. So um, so when you edit this thing, just send me a copy of that. I can put it on the website.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

I got you, man. I got you. We're gonna put it out there for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

But I got worried when I saw that picture you took of yourself sitting in the hospital bed. I said, oh no, what did he do?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

What did he do? Yeah, that was uh that was a bad time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

Yeah, well, I lifted you up in prayer, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

I appreciate you. Yeah, I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

And I appreciate what you're doing, man. Just keep going. Uh I'm gonna send you a link too, because I I did a podcast, uh, I think it's called the Veterans It's another podcast called the Veteran Alumni. Well, what they do is the guy asked me, he said, uh pass this on link on to veterans because they want to hear uh they record veterans' stories, how you came in the military. So if yeah, if I said it to you and you fill out the form, they're gonna call you and it's kind of like a podcast. They it's like a uh they ask you, you know, the point from when you came in the military, what was your experience like, and then the nice thing about they give you a nice little coin and they give you a little thumb drive of your of your interview.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:39

Okay, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

So I told them I'd pass it on to all the vets and stuff like that. So I'm pretty sure they wouldn't hear your story.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

So all right. Well, listen, send it on. Okay, and you know I'm all about promoting, and so I definitely want to get your story out there as best I can. And um, you know, if you I went to your website, I'm definitely I I checked out your book.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

I was like, okay, he has a book out there, you know. This man has a book, and why don't you tell everybody what your website is?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

Uh the website is called speak sergeantroy.com. That's S-P-E-A-K Sgt Roy, all one word dot com. And you can go out there, uh, you see some of the interviews that I've done, you see some videos. Uh I have my book out there. It's also uh you can order the book or it also comes in a um downloadable text form if you want to you know read it on the Kindle or stuff like that. But if you're interested, you know, continuing the conversation, you know, reach out to me. I'd love to hear from you. And uh tell me what you think. You know, you're struggling with some stuff. Um I'm you know love to hear from you. You know, I always want to hear the respect and stay fresh because you know, as a retirement folks, man. If I don't, man, I'll be I'll be sleeping.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:59

Yeah, well, I definitely encourage anyone who is listening to uh contact Sergeant Roy. He's a good dude. Talk to him, talk to the man, give him give him a shout. And uh I will be getting a copy of that book. And I want the autographed one too, so I want that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:17

So I'll autograph. I'll send you one.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:19

I got you. So I'm gonna go ahead and take care of that. But uh listen, Sergeant Roy.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

I said, um I'm I've I've swearing my rivers, I've slayed my dragons. I said, now I'm sitting on the sideline with a cup of coffee, cheering the young people off. Because I remember when I would graduate a class of privates at basic training, and they get cocky when they get ready to graduate. They're like, just I can run fast at you, just I can do this. And I sit back and say, I hope so. Right. Because if not, I'm gonna recycle you. Right. You know, that that's the job. They're supposed to go further. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

Absolutely. And uh, you know, there were a couple of drills that I don't care what I did, I could not run faster than Jokers and I could. Well, there's a trick to it, man, because when I got out of the hat, what they do, they don't tell you.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

All the drills get together, the ones that can run real good or the ones that can march, you know, ruck real good, they spread them out, you know. Because it looks like everybody's like, you know, incredible, but nah, nah. Because I wasn't a runner either, man. And I would take, I would run with the the the the slow group, man, just to get them in shape, man. That A group, yeah. We run A group, man. They just they just fly. They don't even call Cadence, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:32

Yeah. Yeah, you can't. You can't call cadence while you uh out of breath and whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:38

Yeah, right, right. And I told them, I said, to this day, even when we go on Fort Jackson sometimes, my wife, you know, if we're fortunate enough, we'll hear uh either a platoon or a company go by that marching or either running, and my wife made me roll down the window because I like that sound, boy, that cadence. Or that's music, boy. That's music. I don't care what you say, that's good music. Right, right. I hear you. I hear you. Yeah, boy. We had Jill Star Jenkins out there from Georgia, boy. I couldn't run, but one day we went on a two-mile run. It was like he was preaching. Or we was out there, we had a good time. And then I come back in and I had like tears in my eyes. He said, What's wrong with you, Lewis? I said, Joe Star, I've never done that before. You're gonna do it for the rest of your life. And then he went off. I said, Roger that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:26

Yeah, I hear you, man. I hear you. Good stuff, man. Good stuff. Again, thank you so much. And um, listen, this this is not the last one we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

Yeah, I'll keep in touch.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:37

Let's let's let's do that. Let's do this again soon. Yes, sir, and um, let's keep it moving, yes, sir. All right, thank you, sir. All right, take care.