Urban Christian Veterans
Urban Christian Veterans
Sergeant Major Roy Lewis: A Legacy of Service, Strength, and Education
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Join the conversation with Sergeant Major Roy Lewis, a US Army veteran with a riveting 36-year legacy, as he traverses the poignant realities of military life, its effect on home, and the wisdom gained along his impressive journey. With an infectious blend of humor and profundity, Roy guides us through his transformation from a music and theater aficionado to a life of service, sharing potent lessons from his transitions to the corporate world and ministry. His reflections on intentional leadership will captivate anyone looking for inspiration, as will his experience building the sanctuary of Urban Christian Veterans for comrades of faith and color.
We're cracking open the book on modern education and its shifting sands, analyzing how college has evolved from a bastion of enlightenment to a battleground for job readiness. Roy and I ruminate on the pressures bearing down on academia's stakeholders, from students seeking more than just a diploma to educators striving to maintain the ethos of learning amidst a corporate-driven culture. The dialogue spans everything from personal anecdotes as a mature student to the celebration of knowledge for its own sake, providing a seasoned angle on the educational odyssey many are embarking upon today.
The journey doesn't stop there: we venture into the thicket of racism, the art of overcoming stereotypes, and the fortitude it takes to forge one's path regardless of societal barriers. Roy's perspective, shaped by the discipline of military experience and the compassion of his pastoral calling, offers a beacon of hope for minorities and veterans alike. With a call to mentorship and community support, our discussion underlines the importance of veterans assisting each other in claiming their rightful benefits, while encouraging leadership and resilience in the face of life's myriad challenges. This episode is more than just a chat; it's an invitation to explore the power of diversity, the strength of spirit, and the unifying potential of shared experiences.
Urban Christian Veterans Podcast Interview
Speaker 1US Army retired Sergeant Major . Published author . Public speaker on the topic of leadership Sergeant Roy , are you ready ?
Speaker 2I am ready .
Speaker 1All right , let's get into it .
Speaker 3Urban Christian Veterans provides a safe place for Christian Veterans of color . All right , let's get into it . Challenges All of those factors being combined makes for a unique and sometimes difficult life experience that is seldom talked about in public forums . Thank you for tuning in to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast . Here's your host , D Allen Rose .
Speaker 1Thank you , erin , for that wonderful introduction . This is D Allen Rose and you are listening to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast , so first let me just say thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today . I really appreciate it . I know there's so many other things you could be doing right now , but just thank you so much for spending time with me today .
Speaker 2Actually , it's my pleasure . Thank you for the opportunity to be here with your viewers on your show my pleasure .
Speaker 1Absolutely so . Before we get started , could you tell the audience a little bit about yourself ?
Speaker 2Oh sure . Well , my name is Sergeant Major Roy Lewis . I am a Army retired veteran of 36 years in the military . I left the I probably would have stayed forever , but when you're older than a colonel they had to kick me out . But I left at the rank of Sergeant Major and I have served for , like I said , 36 years . I'm married to my wife , wendy of 42 years , a good Army wife . Two children , two adult children . I have a son and a daughter . My son is currently serving on active duty in Vincenza , italy , and my daughter is married to her husband in Oklahoma City , with three of my grandchildren . So we got six all together and I have , like I said , I've , served in the military 36 years . I've also retired from the corporate America as well , from Bank of America , where I was a project manager , software test engineer there , and also an ordained minister too . I've got a chance to get into the ministry as well . So I got my hands in a few things and doing that .
Speaker 1So I got my hands on a few things and doing that , but the most thing I'm really enjoying right now is that I'm going out on the road as a public speaker on the topic of leadership and , to be more specific , intentional leadership . Right on intentional leadership . So , all those years ago , what was your reason for joining the military to begin with ?
Speaker 2Oh , that's a great question . Well , I have to admit , though , most people come in the military at the age of 18 . But I did two years of college . I was a believe it or not music and theater major , and I still enjoy music . I'm a musician as well . But I did two years and went to New York I'm from New York , originally from New York , and try to do my thing in New York and things weren't going so well .
Speaker 2So I remember , turning to my wife , I married my college sweetheart and I remember telling her I said I'm going to go check the military out . What do you think ? And she said you know like ? She said , hey , whatever you want to do and actually you know , that's the last thing I know I remember I was on a bus headed to Fort Dix , new Jersey , basic training , and I thought I had totally signed my life away . So for me it was . I had no job skills other than you know just what I learned in college . So for me it was an opportunity to pick up some , some job skills and some skills that I could use on the outside . So what I signed up for ? I was a supply guy . So logistics , we call ourselves loggies , or whatever quartermaster we call ourselves Loggies or whatever Quartermaster . So I was signed up in there and got in there and that was my introduction to the military .
Speaker 2And the funny thing about it is that where I'm from in New York , nobody's never heard of my hometown , but my town is called Highland Falls , new York , and those that are listening anybody that's ever been to visit the great West Point Military Academy you have to go through my town to go through the front gate . So everybody in that little town works at West Point . My parents both my parents worked at the academy . So my perception of the military was that . And growing up I didn't have anything to do with it because I grew up around the academy my whole entire life . But I joined the military just to do something different , to learn something different . Wow , west Point huh , you grew up outside of West Point , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2We went to pick my dad up from work one time and I remember these uh bus of freshmen got off the bus and these upperclassmen came out of nowhere and these poor kids were like shaking in their boots and they , these uh upperclassmen , were just yelling and screaming at them and I'm like , oh my gosh , who would ever sign up for this ? This is ridiculous . And , uh , I didn't want any part of that . So that was my impression of the military .
Speaker 1Well , it's interesting . You say you were part of supply and logistics and my recollection from being in is you guys were the go-to .
Speaker 2You can get your hands on . Yeah , we're calling it like in a better lack of words we're the drug dealers . You know we make all the drug dealers .
Speaker 1You know that's it deals yeah , you're slinging , you're slinging that stuff , yeah so yeah no , that was cool . I mean , uh , I learned to respect and , and you know , I guess the word maybe even a little adoration for supply when it came especially in on on deployments and campaigns , various combat , whatever those were the guys .
Speaker 2Yeah , they called us . We're responsible for beans , bullets and mail .
Speaker 1There it is Exactly .
Speaker 2Okay so .
Speaker 1I know you're part of that mafia . I got you . That's it , man .
Speaker 2We're the master all the way , and you know , it's funny though I don't know about you , d Rose , but it's funny though I don't know about you , d rose , but it's funny though , when I look back on my who I am as a person like my . My parents said you know , my dad said you always been somewhat of a quartermaster , I was always the one that had the extra this or the extra that , and he just said you just kind of fell right into that mos . That was like perfect for you because , uh , I was somewhat of a of a supply guy . I guess you know keeping up with stuff .
Speaker 1That's good man , that's good , I bet you have some stories , but anyway , yeah . I bet you do so . So if you had a chance to do it over , would you do it again ?
Speaker 2Oh , absolutely I would . The only thing I would change I probably would have went in straight from from high school . And the reason why I say that is because nowadays , college and when I get a chance to talk to a lot of young people about pursuing college or the military or whatever when they get to that place where they have to make a choice on where they're going to start out , place where they have to make a choice on where they're going to start out , colleges is sometimes , I think , somewhat of a ripoff in a way , because I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about . I went to school for music music and theater and when I got there to school , I thought they were supposed to be preparing me to go out and make a living to do this thing . They were supposed to be preparing me to go out and make a living to do this thing . And when I got up there don't get me wrong I was good . I was the man on campus .
Speaker 2However , during one of the summer breaks , I went to New York City to try to audition and do a lot of different things , and that's when I had my reality check . I went to an audition and I saw kids that were like 10 times above talented than I was , and I was like blown away . And I'm kind of glad I went through that because it opened my eyes that when I went back to college it's kind of like you go there and , yeah , they give you classes , they give give you that , but they don't really prepare you for where you are to go and to do a job or do that career . So that was where I was disillusioned when , after I had that moment , I went back to school and I barely I barely finished college because I I had a reality check put it to speak , uh , so to speak .
Speaker 2And then when I joined the military , it's kind of like it was kind of the boost that I really needed to build my confidence up . Because , as you know as all you vets that are listening out there , when you go to boot camp you come in they tear you down . You know they take everything . You start from ground zero and I think it's the best motivational course in the world . You know they start you from ground zero and I think it's the best motivational course in the world . They start you from ground zero and you find out really fast what you're made of . They challenge you at every level . You're challenged mentally , you're challenged physically and you find out if you have heart for this thing .
Speaker 2And I went through that and I came out on the other end . I've learned some things about myself . I didn't even know that I had the fortitude and the resilience to get up . And I can tell you , d-rose , there were days I was like I called my wife the first time I got phone privileges . I called my wife . I remember we went on a run . I told her . I said I was never a runner .
Speaker 1I .
Speaker 2You know , I'll never forget it , Joe , Sergeant V is . He took us out and he said all you fast runners get over here . So I call myself getting in the fast group , I get the fast group and he ran us into the ground and I call my wife . The next day I said I am not going to make this thing , I am not going to make it . And she said you'll be okay , we're getting ready to go get pizza . Bye , she hung up and , oh my goodness , and the next day I get in the B group , the slower group , and Joe Sardinia said no , if you were in my group yesterday , you're going to run in this group today . And I tell you , I went kicking and screaming but he made a runner out of me .
Speaker 2But I think the day where the light bulb came on was Joe Sargent Jenkins and you know everybody at this event remembers all these guys' names because they were so impactful . But Joe Sargent Jenkins , we went on a run and I've never heard of somebody call cadence like that in my life . Oh my goodness , man , it's like we were dancing out there .
Speaker 2He was like he was just like he had us out there . It was like a party , but we were running at the same time and I remember we came back into the company and he said congratulations , young man , you run five miles . And I started kind of like tearing up and he said , lewis , what's wrong with you ? I said , sergeant , I have never done this before in my life . And he just said , well , get used to it , you're going to do it for the rest of your life . And he was right and he motivated me . I never and I guess you know and you know what it does to you . It just really just makes you you . They make you look at yourself , they make you dig down deep and pull your real self out .
Speaker 1So , yeah , I would do it
Reframing Education and Job Opportunities
Speaker 1again . I don't care . You know , it's interesting something that you said you mentioned about how college being a rip off Right being a ripoff right , and here's the thing . You know , you might've noticed this , but there was a time . I think it's a ripoff now , but I think it's partially our fault , and here's why I say it . Tell me if you agree .
Speaker 1A few years ago , I got the opportunity to work a C-level position at a college and I noticed , I mean , the light bulb went off for me . And here's what happened In order for me to get that job , I had to go . I went and got my degree before , actually two degrees , bachelor , master's , whatever . So it qualified me for this position , which I was grateful for . But then , as I'm in there and I'm witnessing , you know I'm , I'm walking around campus and I to all these corporations , right and so , but I say partially our fault , and I'm talking particularly in our community , right , there was a time where we used to send kids to college to become educated . Something shifted and then it became go to school so you can get a job , Right , different mindset . So now kids are coming with this mindset of you got to go to school in order to get a good job and the education piece went away . It wasn't about whether or not you were educated , it was can you become a good human resource for these corporations ? And what ?
Speaker 1What made the light bulb go off for me was I saw how these college professors their job , you know , especially for tenure and research and all that other stuff there they , they had sort of a quota right , I need to do so much research to bring in funding from outside for these corporate entities and the corporate entities in turn would give these young students internships . So it was like a transaction . The education didn't matter . What mattered was the bottom line for the school and that college professor trying to get his tenure and that college professor trying to get his tenure . Meanwhile , you got all these human resources and oh , by the way , instead of teaching the kids to be more educated , you're making a more human resource .
Speaker 1But I guess in our community the goal for a lot of kids were go get a good job , but in other communities , get educated so you can go create jobs right and so , and then this cycle goes on and on you , if you attend these high school graduations , lord , you hear these , these parents talking about oh , we made it to the finish line , you know like . Or oh we next step is college so you can get that good job one day . But you don't really hear get that education so that you can learn how to create jobs . In other words , you're the boss Instead of go make sure you're a good employee for that other boss so and I can go on and on .
Speaker 1Man , I don't know if you can see behind me I got some things hanging on the wall and I'm like yeah , but as I look back on it , uh , you know the ripoff aspect of it , yeah , and I ain't mean to go all off like that , but you , you touched the nerve just then .
Speaker 2It was um , I , we're . We're very close at age and I can safely assume you know , uh , when I say this , that you know uh , we're the generation that came out of , like our parents and our grandparents , coming out of the , the post civil rights movement and and for some families it may be even true for your family , especially a lot of black families at that time , if you're over 50 , over 60 , and it may be true even today that I know for my family . I was the first person to go to college in my family and my dad grew up in , even though I grew up in New York in the 60s there was a mass migration up north for work . So in my town in New York , even though I'm from New York , I'm not a , I'm not born in the , I was born in New York , but in my town all the black families were either from Georgia , north Carolina , south Carolina , florida and , in my family's case , alabama . Everybody was from the South and when we started growing up and got ready to go to college , most of the kids of my age in our generation we were the first ones to go to college , and my dad didn't go to college .
Speaker 2My dad barely finished high school , okay , and my mom , she's a high school graduate but she went to college later on . They graduated high school and but she went to college later on . But they graduated high school and went on and just worked . So their knowledge of college , they don't even have a clue of what that is and the impact of college and what it should be and stuff like that . So that's what we were dealing with .
Speaker 2I remember my mom saying to me like you know , I don't care . You know , and I told her I wanted to study music and theater . She said I don't really , I don't care , as long as you're out of the house , you're going to college . That was just her explanation of that . So that's what we're , that's the handicap that we're working with . But nowadays and I'm really happy because we're seeing a new renaissance in the black community now where the fathers now and the mothers and the grandparents , they have somewhat some education , some college right now and they're not from that era of the post civil you know , civil rights movement- you know like , for instance , like my dad .
Speaker 2He you know the old film of the marchers marching to Montgomery with the firemen spraying the marchers . Well , my father was there , he grew up in that stuff . But we're dealing with now the black generations . Now you've got some college grads in there , you got folks that have gone to college , that have done that kind of thing . So now they're a little bit more educated , because it's not , you're right , growing up it was all about getting a job . It was always about getting that one job that , you know , they couldn't see past that , it was just working . It was no such thing as being entrepreneurial . You know , starting a job , a business creating something . You know , starting a job , a business creating something .
Speaker 2I remember the first time that I saw a Black professional and what I mean by Black professional was a person that was not a singer or an athlete or anything like that . This person was a business owner and that was a rarity . I was just fascinated because I , you know , I started having thoughts of like . You know , I didn't know black people could do that . I didn't Wow , is that possible ? Is that a reality ? You know , I thought that was only something that non-black folks did , that . So , yeah , I could see that , you know so . But however , right now we have the greatest opportunity and you kind of hit me , you kind of got me fired up a little bit , because that's the thing that we need to start doing now . We've got to start coming out of that , out of that , that way of thinking .
Speaker 2Now , you know , especially with the black culture , because one of the things like even at the election , I know we , especially with the black culture , because one of the things like even at the election , I know we're in an election year , but as I got older and older , I realized the way that our culture and the people in our culture were controlled is that the way you control poor people is you give them things or give them the impression that you're giving them things no-transcript . So you know , that's the thing now that universities and I'm kind of glad they're under the gun these days because they've been smoking that thing for a long time charging people exuberant amounts of money for tuition and the fact that you're going to college does not guarantee you a job , does not guarantee you a job . But , to echo what you're saying , knowledge , education , how to be educated to maybe create jobs , how to create a business , how to create something that is yours , that you can , that you have the talents , man . And I remember I know I'm going a little bit along on my answer but I remember I wrote a letter to BET , the Black Entertainment Network , and I wrote a nasty gram to them and I said I said , how is it when I turn on your station , when I turn on your station , I don't see black doctors
Navigating Education and Career Challenges
Speaker 2and lawyers and businessmen ?
Speaker 2I don't see that . I see athletes , I see rappers , I see singers and I can tell you , d Rose , I grew up in a sports town and you know you were someone . If you could play basketball , if you could play football , if you could play any type of sport , you were someone . But I was asking BET , what about us kids that don't play sports ? You may not play a sport , but you may have a good sense for business . You may have a good sense for good sense for business . You may have a good sense for , uh , running , uh , inventing something . You know that you get a product or something like that . But these type of kids more or any kids were always pushed to the side . It was always an uphill climb and they always , the attention was always put on the , the athlete , the singer , the , the actress or the actor or whatever like that , and I thought it was a travesty . Well , long story short , they didn't write me back .
Speaker 2They didn't write me back , but I thought it was a fair question . And now , as a mentor , I'm a senior guy and I know we're going to go into it later on in the show . But when I talk to young people , which is my favorite thing to do I started out in the youth ministry , which is my favorite . I know call me crazy , but I love teenagers I challenged them at every point . What are you going to do ? You were put on this planet to do something unique . You can't say I just want to get a job . That's not an answer . I want to make lots of money . That's not an answer . What do you do Well ? When you , when I , when you pull the cover off of you and I look inside you , what do you do well ? And and if you think about it long enough , you give them a chance to think about it they come back and they say , oh , I do this thing Well . Or I do this thing Well , okay , let's go get it .
Speaker 1Right , that's awesome , man . Now that I'm older , you mentioned , I guess , keeping controlling Black people , giving them something . I'll say that in my earlier years , when I went to college wasn't early , I went to school late .
Speaker 1Right , but anyway when I , when I got my first couple of degrees , I did it based on student loans . And then I had that epiphany and it was like , ok , you know , if I had it to do over and wanted to become educated in something that I was passionate about , I would not have gone to school for these things . I went to school for these things because I needed a job , but now that I'm older , I want to become educated in what I want to do . So now I must be a glutton for punishment . But I'm in school again at this age , right , and so and you know , just a side story I I'm , I'm not ordained by , I'm a minister , and what happened for me was I decided I wanted to go to school to become educated in religion , and so I'm paying out of pocket .
Speaker 1There's no student loan , and so you know that's what I'm doing and the whole , I guess , looking at it from a different perspective now , saying I'm doing this for me so that I can become educated . It goes back to what I was saying , what we were talking about before in terms of the ripoff thing , because the school , the way that it is structured , is almost pushing you to want to get a job , meaning I'm in there and you know that you have to do this introduction or whatever . Like when I went through and got my Master of Divinity , it was OK , introduce yourself , blah , blah , blah , and tell us what job you're trying to get later , like I'm not here for a job , right up here , because I want to become more educated . And then here I am in my doctoral program Same thing .
Speaker 1What are your future plans ? What job do you try ? You know I'm'm like why does it have to be about a job ? Whatever happened to educate . I'm trying to become educated , and so even the school is structured that way . The institution is structured to assume that everybody and they even pressure you right , because it's part of the assignment you get graded on it tell me what job you're trying to get . Like no job , I'm just , I'm here to become educated and so , and then you know , I'm probably just as old as some of these professors and I'm trying to talk to them when I'm like man to man , look man you know like stop trying to push me to a job .
Speaker 1I want to become more educated . You know , being a minister , I want to be educated in certain things . That's what I'm trying to get out of this , not a job . You know so , and when you go into college with that different lens on that , that rip off stuff becomes highlighted and you just see it everywhere you know , noticing that the required books you got to read happen to be written by a different professor that happens to be a buddy with your professor .
Speaker 1You know like , come on , man . You know like this is OK , I'll play that game . Fine , I'm here for the education , but I'm not one of these little 20 year olds . You know that they probably don't know any better . Right , you play in the game , let's play the game . I'll pay for the book , pay your partner , you know whatever , do what you do , but don't come at me sideways when you know I write a paper and we just typically I'm coming at it from a more seasoned perspective , I guess is what I'm saying yeah .
Speaker 1So that , not to mention , which is something we'll probably get into once they see what I look like , because I happen to be going to a school that is predominantly doesn't look like me , let me just say it that way and things the atmosphere changes a little bit , let me just say it that way . So , and I guess that was my next question to you , you know what advice would you give your younger self right about how society would treat you as a Christian veteran of color ?
Speaker 1What you know , if you had a chance to go back in time and talk to your younger self , what would you tell yourself ? You know , look out for this . What is that ?
Speaker 2Well , I look back on the success of my career .
Racism and Overcoming Stereotypes
Speaker 2There's one thing that gets me mad about , about what we do as black people or any minority Like , for example , I go to a party I've done this before . I've gone to a gathering and I'll sit in a room and you know , I'll just watch . I love people watching . I love watching people and I've seen just about everyone has done it . I watch how people congregate in a room . There can be 50 people in a room and I noticed that , you know , the whites will kind of get in their corner and drift towards their corner , the blacks will kind of go to their corner , and the Latinos as well , and people will drift into their little subgroups . And one of the things that I think , as a minority , I had to come to grips with is that racism does exist . It does exist . However , I've come to the conclusion , d Rose , that everybody's racist , everybody is Okay , everybody is how so .
Speaker 2And I remember I have a niece , she's Caucasian and she's such a liberal , she's a real big liberal , and she was just saying , oh , and then you know , minorities , you're not getting the chances and this and that , and you know , and you just , they grow up disadvantaged , this and that . And I turned to her one and during a conversation one time I said and that ? And I turned to her during a conversation one time . I said first of all , what makes you think that I was disadvantaged ? Well , because you've gone through this , you don't get this opportunity . I said , yeah , I hear that . I said , but , and she says there's so much racism . I said , but guess what ? You're racist . She said what are you talking about ? I don't know , I'm not . I said I can prove it to you . I said when I get on your Facebook page , everybody looks like you , everybody looks like you .
Speaker 2And I remember this one lady in my church . She was sitting here this is during the time when Obama was president and stuff and she was doing a lot of race baiting . She's an African-American woman and I was telling her . I said , you know , I was trying to tell her a nice way you need to kind of , you know , not do that race baiting on the Internet . And that woman , man , she called me everything but a state of God . See , you know , but I and I love and I don't get offended by that knee jerk reaction , but I I've come to the realization that everybody is racist at at some point because and even including myself , you know , I , I , I used to walk around with the conclusion that white guys couldn't play basketball . I thought black guys were like the best basketball players in the world , and then you have somebody like Larry Bird that walks in the gym and does all this stuff , you know .
Speaker 2But the thing is that what I would tell young minority folks and veterans is that what helped me in my career is that , yes , I'm an African-American male . And then sometimes , when I will be thrusted in environments where sometimes I might just be the only minority in the room , I might be the only minority in the room and there are times that I was the only minority in the room , but I had to say to myself I deserve to be there , I deserve to be in that room , I deserve , I can do just as well as anybody in this room . And that was what I was telling myself . Yeah , ok , I'm a black male . That doesn't mean that I'm any less intelligent or any less talented or any less smart at all . I have to . I can stand toe to toe . And and at the end of my military career , I told people I had to tell people to their face those stripes that are on my sleeve . I've earned every last one of those stripes . I earned those stripes . Nobody gave me those stripes and I could probably say , yeah , there was probably times where I could have been promoted a lot faster and a lot of people got taken advantage over me , but I didn't quit . I stayed in there and I said , hey , I deserve to be here , I can stand total . I proved I was really more or less proving it to myself that I could stand there and be a great non-commissioned officer as well as anyone else can .
Speaker 2And I think sometimes that , and through my journey I noticed that there was some of my friends that would feel the same way what we're talking about now , but even feel intimidated , intimidated , like , oh no , I'm not good enough or I'm not smart enough . I was like bull butter , you can do this , we can do this . Stand in there , know , and sometimes you do not have to have your amen corner , you don't have to have those people . You have to learn how to stand by yourself sometimes because , like yourself , you want to be , you wanted to be educated , you wanted to be entrepreneurial , you wanted to start your own business , and sometimes I realized it's not even a race thing . Sometimes when you're , you're going on the bigger and better things and sometimes you cannot take everybody with you and everybody can go with you .
Speaker 2Not everybody has the same vision that you have , and I know that , like when I grew up in the hood . I grew up in a poor neighborhood and I remember growing up as a kid , but I had visions of just . I couldn't put it into words back then , but I wanted to do something . I wanted to do something that I could be proud of , and I was around people that you know . Their idea or or definition of success was like to be a great basketball player , or to be , or to do this or even just get a job . But sometimes you know people like yourself . You have a vision . You have a greater vision than that , and I noticed one thing I noticed , and that's , I think , that breaks all the color lines down , because when you want , when you have a vision and God's giving you a vision to do something , not everybody can go down that path .
Speaker 2I think it just it's because I got a best friend , and give you an example of what I'm saying . I got a best friend , I talked to him yesterday . We I mean D Rose . We've been friends since kindergarten Okay , kindergarten , and that was the guy that I told you about when we talked offline . That was a guy that was supposed you about when we talked offline . That was a guy that was supposed to go to basic training with me . We're going to go on the buddy system and he holds me the night before and I still I still remind him about that . He holds me . But we've been best friends since we were kids , since kindergarten . But I realize that I love him to death . He's my best friend . But I've gone places that he's not willing to go , you know , and , and if I had him my way , I would have dragged him with me , but I have to accept that that's . He doesn't want to go there , okay , and I . And sometimes you have to let people go , you know , um , I love them . We've been , you know , we've been through thick and thin together and I would love to , my wife said , our family , both our wives , say , boy , you guys together are a terror , but he doesn't want to go there . But so
Overcoming Challenges and Finding Success
Speaker 2that would be .
Speaker 2That's a long answer of just being able to tell kids , minority kids , minority veterans , if you have a goal , if it's in your heart . If you have a vision for something , that's what your focus needs to be . It needs to be focused on that vision . You need to talk to people that are doing the things that you want to do . You know , because when you move further and further up the ladder , you're going to meet people that don't look like you . You're going to meet people who don't live in the same neighborhood or came up the same upbringing as you did , but , however , they have a world of information that they want to share with you . You got to take that as an advantage .
Speaker 1That's awesome . I will say that when you say everyone is racist , right Years ago I was educated on something that word racism . It was a hard lesson for me to learn . I was in a corporate setting , in a training actually , and we had an HR specialist come in and here's the long story short Minorities can't be racist via the legal definition . Right now I was thinking worldly definition , but from a legal perspective back then , this was what was this early 2000s , I think it was . I was in this , I'm in this training , so I'm in this corporate training . They're doing this HR thing .
Speaker 1you know the trainings that you got to do , the sexual harassment and the you know all of that stuff . So they went through this scenario and here I am , mr big shot , mr c level . They went through the scenario and there was a . There was a situation that I clearly thought was racism in reverse , right , and the hr professional was there is no such thing , there is no legal definition for that . There is no racism is when a you know , people are disadvantaged based on their race by a group that has more power than them , right , so minorities can't be , because minorities don't have , don't wield the power . In fact , it was racism that came up with , or caused us to come up with , affirmative action . Right , but then out on the street , you and I and everybody else talk about yeah we're all racist , Actually , according to the courts and by definition .
Speaker 1no , you're not . And if you ever tried to elevate it beyond a street conversation and tried to go to court on some stuff , they toss it out because you can't be by definition . Now , the the treatment that you would give based on someone's race and all that other stuff . There's a word for that , you know , maybe bigotry , maybe something else , but it's not racism by definition . That makes sense .
Speaker 1So I was educated . That day I was humbled , because I just knew I was right , we're all racist . No , by definition . This HR professional was very clear , because people get caught up in corporate America thinking that they can push something , and that's not the right word , it's something else . But it's not racism . So I don't know if that makes sense .
Speaker 2But no , it does make sense . Um , I , I can agree with that too to a certain extent in your right as far as the , the , the , the , you know the , the term terminology . But , um , I think the thing that I really focus on is just the biblical sense of where uh , jesus was asked . You know , when he was confronted by the Sadducees and Pharisees about the law , and one of the things that people love is law . They like law . They love to break it as well . But they approached Jesus and said of the 10 commandments , which ones are the most important ? And you know the story , you know where I'm going with this .
Speaker 2And Jesus says it's very simple To love the Lord , your God , with all your heart , soul and your mind , and to love your neighbor as yourself . If you fulfill these two , you complete it all . Then you fulfill the embodiment of the law . And he was correct . Fill the embodiment of the law . And he was correct . And just taking that one simple premise of treating people as you want to be treated speaks volumes .
Speaker 2It's such a rule that you can apply in any form of life , a direction of life , because even when I was working in corporate , there was one year , d Rose , that I got laid off . I was a contractor , I'm working technology , I'm a software tester and I was working for the banks . And there was one year I got laid off three times in one year . Three times and there was one , I think , maybe one or two of those altercations I knew there . Wow , now I was able to come out of that situation with flying colors . Because now my prayer is that and I pass this on even to my friend who's looking for work right now and a lot of people are probably listening that are probably looking out of work right now , looking for work I always tell them you know what your prayer should be . Your prayer should be is Lord , put me where I'm supposed to be , put me where I flourish . My favorite , one of my favorite characters in the Bible is Joseph .
Speaker 2I love Joseph because , wherever they put him in the dungeon , he flourished . They put him in service for this military leader , he flourished . They put him down in the prisons when would they put him ? He flourished . And that's where I always pray . It's like Lord , put me where I'm supposed to be , Because if you're going to put me in a place , an environment where there's injustice , or where there's injustice or maltreatment or any type of prejudices or indifferences , Like you said when you started off this broadcast , to me it's just a job .
Speaker 2I mean , it's just like oh my gosh , I have to go into this every day and deal with this . You can't be productive in those type of situations . But , however , if you're in the place where God has you , then you're able to participate , you're able to contribute , you're able to flourish and it's all good , because really there's no place that's perfect . I get that part , I understand that , but I truly believe that it comes down to even in my working relationships with people . I'd rather work with people that are willing to work and come together and collaborate and do all those things that is so much fun . And you've been in the church , you're a minister , you know . I mean I tell even people in the church , I'd rather have just two committed people than to have 200 . I have to push and pull and rub their , give them back rubs and break up fights and all that stuff . It's ridiculous .
Speaker 1Right , well , you alluded to it , but can you specifically tell me about a particular challenge that you faced , specific to being a Christian veteran of color , like something that you went through and you just knew that it was because of those things that you are .
Speaker 2You went through and you just knew that it was because of those things that you are . Well , there was , uh , I know that when , as a veteran , uh , they're doing a lot better job on that . But I remember when I , when they were and this is before trump was ever in office but there was a time that you go to va and you go and you try to follow your disability and things that were going on and you explain you had , you know , back in the day I guess , when you and I was in , you had the big old packet full of your medical records and everything . You carry those around with you . I mean , everything's on digits now , but you go in there and you fill out the application and then you tell them what you went through and it was just like they took one look at you and just said , okay , you're eligible for this and aren't even thinking about what's going on . So that was that turned me off for a number of years . That really did until , however , I was at the gym . Years later I went to the gym and I met this guy in the locker room . He was a advocate for Veterans Affairs and we were talking and I told him that kind of that same story that I gave up on it and he just said , no man , no , and that's when things were turning around for vets . And he talked me into resubmitting my paperwork . And I submitted my paperwork and I got up to about 45% . The story's not finished yet . So I had , you know , I had 45 percent disability
Supporting Veterans in Accessing Benefits
Speaker 2.
Speaker 2But me and my wife went on a cruise one year and I was I , you know , I'm like you , I wear my , I wear my army stuff , I have my army hat , like that . I'm sitting there at a table , you know , having breakfast , and this gentleman and his wife walked up to me and said he guy identified himself , he's from Georgia , first Sergeant Marion Hope you're watching and listening to this broadcast . But he said , hey , he's an advocate for veteran affairs . And I told him the same thing . He said he asked me what my percent was . I said , oh , I'm at 45% . And I told him , gave him a quick overview of my background and and he was a um , uh , a processor , and he said , hey , here's my card , call me when we get off the cruise and I'll fix that Long story short I'm at almost a hundred percent , you know .
Speaker 2So the thing is that for vets , uh , even minorities , you know I mean that that was a bad experience I had . But the thing is that uhets , even minorities . You know I mean that was a bad experience I had , but the thing is that you can't stop that because I say to minority vets and all vets don't give up , because you're entitled to that . You know , because sometimes I know it's very intimidating to go to that big old building and sit there and fill out the application and go talk to those people , because I mean by this time I met so many vets that are just kind of . You know , we're old and we don't want to deal with that stuff anymore .
Speaker 2It's easier to walk away , right , but I just like to see us vets do a better support of supporting each other , like what you're doing with your broadcast . You know it's getting the word out there . We have to start . You got to remember when we were all in the military , we were in that culture where we all supported each other . We were in that cocoon . Well , that doesn't have to go away . The fact that we're out of uniform , you know it's still there . We have to take care of each other and that's just how we do it . You know , things like what you're doing with your broadcast getting the word out there .
Speaker 2You know , when I go to a restaurant I meet another vet . That's the first thing , and it might just be a Sergeant Major thing , but anyway I say , hey , where are you with your , your VA benefits , where are you ? What's going on ? And I've had people D Rose , I tell you , I've had people say , oh , it's not a big deal , I just served two years , or I served just three years , it's not a big deal . And come to find out they were hurt or injured on duty and they never filed the paperwork . It was never a big deal , and that might be something on the exit strategy that the military has lacked to do . However , those us vets that know better we need to do a better job supporting each other . That should not be happening with . Vets are missing out on crucial benefits that they are entitled to for their service and it just , it just falls through the cracks .
Speaker 1There's service and it just it just falls through the cracks . No , I absolutely agree , and I think that you know I couldn't put my finger on it , but the evidence just simply was there , in that you know I would go to the VA . I've been to the VA here in Atlanta , of course , but then up in DC I had a chance to go to the VA hospital up there . Here's what shocked me it was crowded , as you know , like the VA hospitals always crowded , but the majority of the folks in there didn't look like me . The majority of the folks in there didn't look like me , right .
Speaker 1And I'm like when I was in Sorry Sorry , I said that in reverse Majority did look like me . Okay , they did look like me , but when I was in , it was a mixture , it was a blend . It looked like everybody Right , we all went through the same blend . It looked like everybody Right , we all went through the same stuff , we all got out Right . But yet it's us that seem to be in these VA hospitals , in these , in these urban cities .
Speaker 1Is what I'm saying so then I I'm in Atlanta and I'm going through a program through the VA , looking around the room and it's mostly folks that look like me and we get to talking about benefits and it's just us in the room who look like me and I'm like anybody ever wonder where everybody else is Like where they at .
Speaker 1And some of them who had connections with these other vets would say , oh , they got theirs right , like they . They got theirs like , how did they get their 100 ? And we're in here struggling to get it , getting turned down , getting rejected and all this other stuff . And thankfully I came across a counselor who cared and he put the . He just put it out there and was like it's because they share information and that's all this is . And you guys in this particular group need to share information . Some of y'all are further along than others and so we began to share information .
Speaker 2Absolutely .
Speaker 1And within a year's time , the majority of the room had 100 percent , and it was simply by information . And so it's like but here's the thing , we're not only there for information , but we're also there for treatment . We're not only there for information , but we're also there for treatment . They don't necessarily come here for treatment . They got their own private doctors and private whatever , and so their private doctors will write whatever letters they need for their claims and whatnot . But when you come to a VA facility , you have to come armed with information , to even know what to ask a clinician to write for you and that sort of thing . And so it's information , man , and it's like , for some reason , you know .
Speaker 1Back to the question , given that we face these particular challenges . I don't know if it's an unwritten rule , I don't . I don't know what's going on , but we don't get that benefit of that information just by default , like others do . If that makes sense , right , I it , just it took for someone who cared to say talk , right , we need to talk , get the information out , and then encouragement as well . Right , because for us it's it's encouragement , but on the other side of the fence , it's an expectation . Like they come expecting certain things , entitled to certain things and they push through and they get it quick , whereas we come with the attitude of uh , I hope right , right , I hope I can get it , but if I don't , no big deal , I don't feel like dealing with it . And so there's a different level of thinking .
Speaker 2You're right , I think it's a mindset . It's definitely a mindset because you have to . You come from a mindset of where you were in the military , everybody that you're thinking for you and all that other kinds of stuff . Well , now you , you your own project manager . Now , you're your own personal project manager now , and some people don't know how to do that , and that's okay . To give an example of what I'm talking about my father , my father , passed away years ago , but my father is from the state of Alabama and he , when he man he went to VA , he soaked him . He got everything out of it , I mean everything .
Speaker 2And here's the crazy thing D Rose , I didn't even know my dad was in military and I have to ask my mother because I've never seen a picture of him in a photo I've never seen . I didn't even know he did military service . I asked my mother how is this that he's going to VA getting all this stuff and that , by the way , the state of Alabama has a great VA program ? My mother said , oh , he did one year , one year in the reserves , one year , and somehow I don't know who talked to him or who coached him or whatever , but I was with my dad and I saw him get everything from diabetic shoes to canes , to walkers , to . They came to my parents' house and put in a ramp in his house and everything . And I mean I don't know how he did it . He'd just go there and they just threw stuff at him you know , so I'm looking at that .
Speaker 2How is that any different ? Well , I think what it is is that we , first of all , I think it starts with just the support that we vets have to give each other there has to be a support group because , to be fair , it is intimidating . It really is , and I think , depending on the individuals , the mindset , you have to know the right questions . I'm under VA right now . They did my knee replacement and I was eligible for it . I was going to go commercial because I was still working at the bank , but they did my knee replacement but I went in there and I asked them questions and they didn't do it right and I had them do it all over again to fix it . So you've got to go in there .
Speaker 2Va's not perfect . I've heard horror stories . It's a whole lot better than what it was back in the day , what I heard . But you have to ask the right questions . But then again , you got to know what those questions are and I think that comes by education . I know you're an education guy and I think that it's nothing wrong with having support groups . We're in the informational age right now , with the internet and everything going on . I think there should be support groups , meetup groups that have where you have discussed these , these issues . Because you're right , when you go to any , I mean it doesn't have to be a VA I'm trying to get . I don't know how you feel about this , but I mean I go into any business . Nowadays , you know you have companies . They don't even answer their phones anymore .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2I mean gosh for crying out loud . Everything is just thrown at you . Customer service is in the tubes right now for everything restaurants , businesses or whatever . And I have to . My wife is terrified when she has to go take care of some business because nobody's answering her questions . But when I get in , when I take over , I just know the questions to ask . If I don't get the right answer , I , I , I escalate to a manager . You know I , I'm persistent , you know I sit there and I stay on it until again . It might just be the Sergeant major thing , I don't know . But until I get the answer that I'm looking for . But to be fair to other people , sometimes it's intimidating . It really is . It is intimidating to go up there and just say to a doctor no , I don't think this is right . I'm feeling this way . Why , you know , why can't I have this or whatever ? You are entitled to ask those questions . You're not going to get written up , you're not going to get an article 15 . Right , you can ask those questions .
Speaker 1Yeah , you definitely have to be your own advocate .
Speaker 2Yeah you have to be your own advocate . Yeah , you have to be your own advocate and it's in . But once you start , I truly believe , I'm confident enough that once you start becoming your own , confident being your advocate , you'll feel better . You know , you'll feel more confident to go in there and you call the shots . You know they want to give you this medicine and you don't think that you need to take this medicine . Tell them why you speak up and cause you got to remember . They treat thousands and thousands of vets and I've gone into the VA and I know my doctors . I joke around with them , I know they're , they're , they're married , I know their kids or whatever . Uh , and they , and it's beautiful . When you talk to them , they say hey , mr Luke , they know me by name . Right , you know . So you just can't go in there and let them treat you like just a number .
Speaker 2You know you got to go in there and let them know that you are a person and you have some questions . You have some real questions . Don't be quiet , Speak up .
Speaker 1Well , let me just say God bless you for going back and saying you didn't do this right , Do it over . Because I just had surgery and I can't see myself saying do this over .
Speaker 2You served honorably .
Speaker 1And .
Speaker 2I know that I look at every vet . I , like you've asked the question . I wouldn't change a thing . I , when I went to Baghdad and I was a special ops team in 2007 , I was deployed to Iraq for a year .
Speaker 2I was in a combat zone and I told my wife . I gave her strict orders . I said should I get killed ? I said I don't want you on CNN , I don't want you on NBC to sit there and complain about the war or whatever . I said you dishonor me . And she says what are you talking about ? I said if anything , I can lay my head down and say that I've done right in this life . That is , becoming a soldier . I have no regrets in becoming a soldier and even when I was a drill instructor I was a drill instructor for nine years at Fort Jackson and I remember teaching trainees . I was like , hey , my job is to teach you how to survive on the modern day battlefield . And we had a poster in the drill sergeant office that says let no soldier come back from the grave saying that they were improperly trained .
Speaker 1Right on .
Speaker 2So I love being a veteran . It's one of my greatest accolades . I'm real proud of it . I'm proud of our vets . I'm proud of every vet , whether you serve one , two , 20 years or whatever . But I love our culture . I love everything about our culture and I wouldn't trade it for a thing .
Speaker 1Oh no , absolutely , and
Veteran Encourages Leadership and Resilience
Speaker 1you know .
Speaker 2Just to be clear , let me just say and I might like add , I don't know if your viewers would agree with me , but I think they ought to install the draft . That'll take care of your juvenile problem in a heartbeat . Uh-oh yeah , I said it , I said it , I said it .
Speaker 1Let me just say , no , you got to come back for that one we got .
Speaker 2We got to have a whole segment on that one , because that yeah , that's a , that's a good yeah because I tell you , d rose , uh and we'll be talking at a later time but my son , my son is a cw3 warrant officer in the us army , but he was enlisted first but he was my problem child , okay , my problem child okay , and he has done a total 180 in the opposite direction and , uh , I've watched him grow up into a man . You know , and I've just talked to him today . He's stationed over vincenza , italy , and uh , he was all into gangster rap and all that other kind of stuff , and now he's sitting there , he's got his , you know , he's sitting there and his specialty is .
Speaker 2The funny thing is , his specialty is military intelligence .
Speaker 1Uh-oh , oh , that's awesome , it is awesome .
Speaker 2But he wasn't intelligent when he was out there running them streets .
Speaker 1See he's going to hear this and be like Pops is clowning me , oh yeah .
Speaker 2And then I love how God pays him back , because my oldest grandson is a Xerox copy of him . He's a slickster , my grandson's a slickster , just like my son , but I'm so proud of my son . He did a turnaround and , just like I told you earlier on in our interview , my know my son . He thank God . You know we got him back . You know he went to basic training and they broke him down and built him back up and it's all good now .
Speaker 1Wow , yeah , he's going to hear this and hear how you just clowned him . But that's you know y'all have a conversation about that . But anyway , is there anything you wish I would have asked , and if so , how would you answer ?
Speaker 2it . I just want the vets this is the platform that we're on with these veterans . I like where you're going with this and if I could just be in a room with just each vet and just tell them don't give up hope , don't quit . You know , the problem is , yeah , we can't expect life to be fair all the time , and I think what makes life hard is that we try to make it fair . Okay , but the thing is that don't give up . If it's you're worth it , you're worth it . You know . Don't turn around and walk away and just be submissive . You serve this country . You serve this country honorably and you deserve to be respected . And you know , even like when I got deployed to go to Iraq , I I shake the hands of all the Vietnam vets because every time we went to an airport , those guys would escort us in to and from the airport . Every time the Vietnam vet guys they came back and people were spitting on them and punching them and calling them all kinds of names and all that kind of stuff .
Speaker 2However , my one word is don't quit , stay the course , speak up , don't be ashamed . And if you have a problem with that , I've got my drill sergeant hat still right over here , right there . You know , we don't call it punishment , we call it positive reinforcement . There it is , there it is . Never forget it Because your life is over . You remember your mother , your father and your drill sergeant . There it is , yep , it is , but you never forget it because your life is over . You remember your mother , your father and your drill sergeant .
Speaker 1There it is Yep , yep , absolutely . So , look , we're coming to the end of this and I always like to give my guests an opportunity to share their opinion on a current event . Is there are there any current events out there that you'd like to to just give your opinion on ?
Speaker 2Are there any current events out there that you'd like to just give your opinion on ? Well , the current events are just more or less . You know , we're in election year right now and I'm not going to go into politics or whatever , but I challenge our vets to be wise , be smart , get involved . We need leaders out there and I have to say this , you know , and the current event is be a leader in your home , be a leader to your family , be a leader in your church . You know , because right now , our young people are , they're not seeing it . I'm sorry , they're just not seeing it and you need to be a leader . You know , because I remember when I was a young man , you know , growing up , and my grandmother or my grandfather would walk in a room and they were the patriarch and the matriarch of the family and they , you know you , sat up straight . You know you all put a yes , ma'am , a no , sir , right behind that response .
Speaker 2You know , and young people , they may not tell you directly , but they're looking for leadership , they're looking for people they can trust and and looking , and you may not think you have anything to offer , but you do . You have a whole world of experience that these young people can gain wisdom from . So don't be afraid to share it . They don't know nothing , just ignore them . They don't know afraid to share it . They don't know nothing , just ignore them . They don't know anything . Just tell them OK , those pants up . You come here . You know , that's it . Be a leader , that's it .
Speaker 1All right . So before we wrap up , why don't you tell folks how they can get in touch with you ? I know you got a lot going on , yeah .
Speaker 2I have a website out there . It's called Speak S-P-E-A-K SpeakSergeantRoycom . It's all one word SpeakSgtRoycom . I have a website out there . You can reach my contact page out there If you want to continue the conversation . I'd love to have that conversation with you one-on-one , or I'm available to go visit your church or your civics group . But this is uh , d Rose , and tell you I can talk about this all day . This is my favorite topic and favorite audience to be with . Uh so uh , and my website is out there . Reach out to me , give me a shout out , love to meet you .
Empowering Youth Leadership and Guidance
Speaker 2Well , I want to say thank you again , d Rose , for the opportunity to be here . Um , keep on what you're doing . I think you've got . Your goals are really admirable . I think you're going to really make a huge impact on our culture . What's going on down there , especially down in Atlanta ? We can get you up here in North Carolina to speak as well . Hopefully enough , your show will come up here as well .
Speaker 1Absolutely , absolutely .
Speaker 2And listen . You got to come back because we got to have this conversation about this draft .
Speaker 1I know the Mamas are not going to like that , but they'll be here . Yeah we need to schedule some time for you to come back . I know you're busy , but whenever you can , we'll draft .
Speaker 2Yeah , we need to talk about that . Yeah , man , I tell you , man , man , I tell you after I share a few of my stories we almost lost my son . So you know , I've , you know , our youth are so precious , man . They need , they need guidance and leadership , man , they really do okay , well , listen , brother .
Speaker 1Um I sincerely appreciate your time today and um , like I um always say to my folks when we're signing off , may God keep you may God bless you and may God continue to be with you . Thank you so much .
Speaker 2Amen Thank you .